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101 of 117 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars buyer beware, 22 July 2013
Verified Purchase(What is this?)
This company does not take kindly to bad feedback, if you have problems and do not give good feedback then expect insults and generally infantile remarks about yourself and your abilities as a human being to use a computer.
Apparently in their own eyes they are the perfect company to trade with.

Them
"i think it was totally professional. if you had bothered to email we could quite easily have sorted the problem out as you obviously failed to enter the code correctly probably not using case sensitive letters .the fact you didn't and tried to blame your mistakes on others pretty much sums it up.as for the rest of your email exactly how do you think an oem version comes other than the way it was packaged? if you did not understand the concept of oem why order in the first place? furthermore if you had any queries before buying you should have emailed.your feedback is a sad reflection on the fact modern society cannot think for itself

Me
At the time of installation which was in the evening there was nobody to help rectify the problem. Microsoft reported that the activation key was invalid and I had to go through a whole phone process just to get the laptop running and be able to finish installing windows and set up my software ready for work the next day.
My feedback is in no way malicious but honest based on my experience. The software was in a sealed paper sleeve inside a blank DVD case. Considering the price charged it did look a bit cheap.
Honestly I think your response to my feedback is not very professional and harsh.

Them
why leave feedback first without contacting us to rectify any problem.does not make a lot of sense really does it !!!!!!!!!!
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Showing 11-19 of 19 posts in this discussion
Posted on 22 Mar 2014, 23:08:09 GMT
Last edited by the author on 22 Mar 2014, 23:10:08 GMT
RDKells says:
I hate people like you. It's a shame you're allow to review products.

The review you are leaving is for a product not a service. If you have comments on the service then place them in your comment and NAME THE SELLER YOU BOUGHT FROM. Only use the stars to rate the product, in this case you are rating an OEM version of Windows 7. If you wanted a less 'cheap' looking item then you should have purchased the retail-boxed version of Windows 7 for £20-50 more, instead you opted for a cheap version and then complained it looked cheap. Familiarize your self with OEM products.

Products like these are sold by MULTIPLE sellers, the seller you dealt with may not be the seller other people are buying from and yet your review deters people from buying this product due to their and your mis-understanding of how amazon works, please take some time to familiarize your self with how amazon works when it comes to buying items.

I wish you dismay and ill fortune,
Ryan.

Posted on 15 May 2014, 21:25:24 BST
Hi,
My boyfriend who's a Network Admin & has various Microsoft Qualifications would like to clear a few things up here, so here are his words ;
1: When selling an OEM version of a Windows operating System it must be accompanied by a piece of PC Hardware crucial to the function of a PC... Most sellers get round this legal issue by supplying you with say a mouse for example... But once you install this OEM version of Windows it's supposed to stay with that PC !bThere are ways that it's acceptable to alter said PC like change motherboard or even change case etc etc...
If you simply re-use this OEM serial number on another PC = Your breaking Microsoft licensing laws quite frankly.
2: When inputting the serial number it's not case sensitive as MS always defaults your inputs to CAPS ! So the Seller is clearly clueless on this.
3: Buying a RETAIL version of Windows means that you are free to install that copy & it's serial number on any PC that you wish to but crucially only on 1 PC at a time.
4: Microsoft doesn't sell "Reconditioned serial numbers full stop" so IMHO the serial numbers you's are probably buying are from old PC's that haven't been used in ages or even stolen keys = that's why a lot of you's will probably have to go through the phone set up method after inputting the key & the page telling you to phone this UK MS number.
5: I'm a fully qualified "MCP/ Microsoft Certified Professional" & also a fully qualified "MCSA/ Microsoft Certified Network Administrator" so believe me I know what I'm talking about here, You's are buying Copy MS discs + used or even stolen keys from dodgy sellers !

I hope my boyfriend's cleared something's up for a few of you's & if it you's need more info do visit microsoft.com & read up on their OS's License laws terms & conditions please.

Thx J...

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2014, 11:21:05 BST
Last edited by the author on 16 May 2014, 11:53:20 BST
M. Allen says:
Edit: Just wanted to add that Joanna's post is bang on as to explaining how dodgy sellers operate, but IMHO these are not issues that are occurring with most of these sellers. It is a good post take take as a guide to the rules (we all know that Ts and Cs are long and boring to read).

@joanna: maybe you should buy one and see what you are getting? You can always return it. I am also a well qualified IT Engineer and certified system builder. I am also on here under my real name. Initially I was very wary of these licences, but then ordered a couple. There are many different sellers here selling subtly different items. Some are full scale business, others are from individuals. Everything I have received so far has been totally legitimate usable licences. Everyone of them has cleared through Microsoft's authorisation process. All but one of them came in legitimate packaging (that seller has now disappeared).

The most obvious legitimate keys are the ones that are designed for upgrading refurbished PCs which were already licensed with an MS OS to Win7. True, many of these have appeared in a German Language box, but they are genuine. And are doing the job they are supposed to. Upgrading an already licensed PC. Those DVDs are marked "Intended for use on Refurbished PCs". This is also repeated on the licence sticker. The sticker is certainly not refurbished (they are next to impossible to lift off an old case in one piece)

It is not a "refurbished licence", but a "licence for a refurbished PC".

Yes, I am an OEM builder and I am upgrading numerous PCs for my clients. The key is going onto one PC and is then tied to that hardware. The legitimate sticker is then applied to the side of the PC case, alongside the old licence sticker. I am the guy who is then connecting the new licence to the hardware for sale to the end user. The licence will not be transferable from that point. The licence passes through MS authorisation without troubles.

Some of these are being supplied with Dell CDs because they are really aimed at Dell PCs which need upgrading, but as long as that PC already has a legal Vista licence on it, then the rules are being bent there instead of broken. In my case, the one Dell disk that did arrive I actually did use on a Dell laptop for a client. So all that my supplier did was to act as a middle man between me and Dell.

If you cast your mind back to just before Win7 first came out, all Vista Dells were being supplied with Upgrade tokens. After Win7's release, you could then contact Dell and for the cost of £15 postage they would send you a Win7 install disk to use on your Win Vista PC. This is almost certainly where the bulk of these Dell disks are coming from. BUT there is no Dell name on the stickers. They are just Microsoft Windows 7 written on them, just like the licences on other Win7 PCs. No Dell logos on the licence sticker only on the DVD supplied.

These are certainly not second had stickers lifted from old PCs. Or dodgy licence numbers generated by a pirate. Or fake stickers. These are going to be excess OEM stock that have been bought in bulk and resold. When installing, a careful read of the licence that is being agreed to shows that rules are being stuck to. And they are cheaper because they are aimed at PCs which already have a licence paid for.

Where these refurbishment installation rules would be broken is if someone buys one of these for a brand new PC that has never been licensed. Even through the licence will work fine and authorise fully with Microsoft the person who built that new PC would be breaking the refurbishment licence rules. It is this grey area that I am avoiding as a System Builder.

If they were totally illegal and pirated licences being sold, Microsoft would have come down on both Amazon and the resellers like a ton of bricks by now. Especially as some of them are coming via the "Fulfilled by Amazon" route, Amazon is not going to want to be associated with pirate software.

I hope my experience here helps a few other people when making buying decisions.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2014, 12:14:14 BST
Hi,
In reply to the above statement regards MS license laws etc...
I haven't seen any of these sellers saying that these discs/ keys are for using ONLY on a PC which has already had an older MS OS Installed on it... As you say these would be UPGRADE discs which MS did offer at a knock down price for a while before they switched fully to Win 7.
Upgrade discs/ keys have a whole entire different License law/ rules to new builds.
This seller doesn't state that these are Upgrade discs/ Licenses in fact the seller doesn't seem to say much at all really.
Read a few reviews & you will see that some users are being sent out Serials which have indeed been used before that then fail after a few weeks with the "Windows Verification Software" which would tell me that the KEY in question is still in use on a machine somewhere.

I or MICROSOFT have no issues with the legit sale of BULK WIN 7 upgrade discs.

As far as I can see in this case here ;
That old saying applies - If it appears to look too good to be true then it probably isn't, So as long as the buyer's here are aware of Microsoft OS License Laws & Amazon are happy enough to risk this type of carry on to continue then that's both the Buyer's & Amazon's choice to indulge in this exceptionally Dodgy method of getting yourself a Win7 License with a convenient lack of details about what it is your actually buying = Good luck is all I can say to this practice.

So buyer take note here & Please read up on MS OS LICENSE LAWS.

& to M. Allen's post = Eh are you perhaps the seller ? Or what ?

If you are actually a "System builder" using these Win7 discs/ Keys that are being sold by this seller on client's PC's = Did you receive as MS OEM License laws dictate a crucial price of PC Hardware with every Disc/ Key you paid for from this seller ?
If not then you & the seller are breaking the law !
There are no grey areas when it comes to such things as you should know !

So in summing up here.
Buy at your own risks but my advice as an MCP/ MCSA & having yrs of experience regards MS License Laws/ Rules & even Loopholes would be to stear clear... & Dont go moaning to MICROSOFT if & when your License key gets Bumped/ Fails it's random "MS GENUINE SOFTWARE LICENSE KEY CHECK"...

Don't say you's weren't warned people ;)

Cheers ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2014, 13:11:31 BST
M. Allen says:
Hi Joanna,

I am certainly not the seller here. Just a buyer. Just posting some experience of the products I have purchased. Not trying to promote anything, just passing on review experience of products I have had in my hands and made use of.

Believe me, I would be the first to complain if I got some shady printed DVD appear with a dodgy sticker. I often deal with clients of mine who have "purchased a bargain copy of office in [insert random country here] while on holiday\at car boot sale". I then show them the dodgy printing of the boxes, the peeling low quality DVDs, the obviously shady licence stickers, and comical "holograms". I then refuse to handle those clearly illegal products. I am glad to report that so far I have seen nothing like this from Amazon.

The biggest problem with reviews on this site is that products like this have DOZENS of sellers. These reviews get associated with a whole mish-mash of different Win 7 Pro items and DOZENS of different sellers. And each of them then piggy back on the same page. This makes a headache with these reviews as really there are reviews here mixed together of so many different sellers - good and bad.

I agree with you that these should be more clearly marked as "upgrade" disks. I would have thought it would have made sense for the legit sellers of upgrade disks to create a new page to get themselves disassociated with the dodgy sellers. Including that shady selling of Dell disks which I agree is a little "odd" and personally I have made sure they have been kept for upgrading Dell PCs as Microsoft initially intended.

I think the way some of the sellers are cheating here is they are tagging onto a page advertising Win 7 Pro with minimal details on it. I doubt any of these sellers actually created this page, they have just come in as marketplace sellers to piggy pack on the popular page.

I agree that I have seen a few posts here that say keys fail after "weeks". They would clearly be dodgy copies and Amazon would be forced to chase the sellers and sort out refunds.

As you know, if Win7 is installed and the licence not manually activated then the PC will do so automatically three days later. In my case as I want to know fully confirm that these licences are valid before I pass them back to my client's I will go through that activation process myself so I can see the "genuine" logos appear. I also tend to use my own Win7 Pro images to install from as I make sure I have SP1 and other updates rolled into it to save time. (That image is based on the ISOs supplied by Digital River) This also means I can be 100% sure that there is nothing dodgy with the supplied disks. No one has tampered with the activation code on the disk. (Though the disks as supplied I have seen are all clearly recognisable as legit. No DVD-Rs here so far - I'd send them straight back if they arrived!)

I do also agree with you that it is such a bizarrely random way of buying a product. The Marketplace is a bit "Wild West" at times, and here there is clearly a game of Russian Roulette going on. I avoid buying from people with zero feedback and choose business who have been trading for years. Even then, each product I receive I will compare with the "Genuine" images Microsoft produce to allow checking of their product (I am also in the MS Partner Network so have access to other resources to check through)

As to the question about "did I get hardware supplied with these" - that answer is no. But I am not the end user, and the disks are not advertised as OEM (well, not the ones on the page I am buying from). I am tying the licence to the hardware and then passing it to the end user. Any licences I pick up I get from the same seller who is putting out the licences for refurbished PCs. Which means no hardware needs to be supplied with them by him, as long as they go onto a PC which already has a paid for legal licence.

I would also be very surprised if Microsoft have not already investigated many of these sellers. Amazon is such a huge seller of products now that surely they should have been the target of investigation from Microsoft by now.

But yeah - buyer beware and make sure you read up on the Ts and Cs and check the rules as to what is being purchased. Closely inspect the product that arrives and compare it with the available Microsoft resources. We all have to rely on old stock now as Microsoft want to sell Win 8 direct and it is getting harder to get hands on Win 7 which is what my customer's are requesting.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2014, 18:36:33 BST
Hi,
This is the kind of thing I'm concerned about & this is a Direct Quote from that seller's advert of sale ;
"( DELL DISC ) DELL Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64 Bit WITH COA. PC DVD for 1 User Only. DELL REINSTALLATION DVD DISC for use in any brand of PC. No box. Sealed disc in envelope with COA only. Sent via recorded delivery. UK DISPATCH. The item is NON RETURNABLE and NON REFUNDABLE, as in accordance with Amazon's software policy."

The seller clearly states their Dell Licenses which are of course supposed to be put on to say a WinXP Dell Laptop or even a say WinVista Dell Workstation/ Desktop...
The seller states that these ""DELL"" Licenses can be used on any PC...

I looked at all 8 sellers who seem linked into this "Product & it's Reviews pages" & out of the 8 I think only a couple don't mention that their ""DELL"" Licenses.

Now this is the very misleading part to some poor soul who's trying to get themselves a bargain & might find themselves actually breaking the Licensing Laws imposed by MS, while as far as I can see Amazon allow it & Microsoft seem to be getting SOFT for even allowing this kind of practise.

Now it's time I think we both stopped wasting anymore of our time IMHO & let Amazon hopefully police the selling of such things better & let Microsoft as it used to do to hunt down these Dodgy sellers & make them pay (In Legal Terms) .

Cheers ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 16 May 2014, 19:47:44 BST
M. Allen says:
The bizarre thing is each time I reply there is a totally different image at the top right of this page. Sometimes it is a dell disk, other times it is a refurbishment disk. This is the confusion of Amazon. Their algorithm for reviews merge together "related" products which are actually totally different. Bit like how they merge VHS, DVD, DVD Special and BluRay reviews under the same banner. Makes life confusing to connect the product to the version being reviewed.

I think the sellers get caught out too. Marketplace sellers come in and line up under one product, but then a review from a different product and totally different sellers gets associated with it. Worse then happens when the original seller comes along and changes the images.

I also think in this case the Amazon policy about "NON-REFUNDABLE" software would only work if the software was 100% legit. So if someone buys from a page that doesn't show a Dell disk, but a Dell disk then appears, they would have the perfect right to send it back as it clearly wouldn't be what they paid for. Even more so if the DVD that turns up is a fake, or if the licence fails validation. Plenty of consumer rights laws would step in and force the refund.

I notice that the Dell Disk image at the top of the page does not have a Dell licence sticker. Have a look at the photo at that copy is an OEM Licence. No mention of Dell anywhere (legit Dell licences will have Dell on the stickers.) So that one *is* a generic OEM sticker. Yet comically the description of the product says "Windows 7 Professional 64 bit MAR Refurbished" and Hologram spelt with two M's like the German supplier no doubt typed.

Yet that says nothing about what actually gets supplied... that old Russian Roulette minefield again.

With the current eight sellers listed I see only two talk of "Dell DVDs", one talks of "Hologram DVD and Refurbishment Sticker", and one is "Fulfilled by Amazon". The others have no description. So Clearly a different list of eight to what you are seeing. But if we mentioned the name of any of those suppliers, our post would be deleted...

Totally bonkers review system. Maybe worked fine for Books where there isn't a huge difference between hardback and paperback versions, but doesn't help much when making decisions like this.

Personally I avoid the majority of Marketplace sellers and plump for the "Fulfilled By Amazon" guys as they have more to loose if they are selling dodgy kit.

And I totally agree - we are both wasting too much time on this. :) It is way past Beer O'Clock

Cheers ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2014, 18:09:35 BST
The PM says:
Interesting, thanks.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2014, 18:13:03 BST
The PM says:
Extra interesting!
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