Learn more Shop now Learn more Shop now Shop now Shop now Shop now Shop now Learn More Shop now Shop now Learn more Shop Fire Shop Kindle Amazon Music Unlimited for Family Shop now Fitbit
Customer Review

15 of 20 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars They could have avoided Joan of Ark, 4 Nov. 2011
This review is from: The Forgotten Kingdom/Le Royaume Oublie (Hesperion XXI/Jordi Savall) (Audio CD)
At first it is necessary to remember the Cathar extermination is the worst ever crime against humanity committed within Christianity against other Christians. It is at least as awful as Auschwitz and if it was not done industrially for obvious reasons it was done with the absolute and supreme aim to destroy for ever and ever a whole community of people who were your own brothers, at times members of your own family, your parents or your children, just for one reason: they dared to think differently from the official canon decreed by a bunch of people in Rome. Here we are only dealing with the music, and we should not forget that this movement is also political, economic and social. The religious deviance will be uprooted but not the political and social demands and reforms that will take place nevertheless and in spite of the resistance of those who had just destroyed the Cathars. The future was coming from the south as for city organization, political and social structure, feudalism and the new mercantile order coming up that will only take over after the Black Death and the Hundred Year War.

To understand, maybe, this division of the Christian world we have to understand that Europe was colonized by the Indo-Europeans starting around 5 or 6 thousand years ago via two routes. The Meditarranean route crossed Anatolia and then spread to Greece, Italy and Iberia and the coasts of the Mediterranean sea. But the other route was just as important. They crossed the Caucasus and then entered the vast plains of Central Europe and moved west and north. They will be rejoined later on by the Finno-Ugrian people.

But the important fact is that these Indo-Europeans did not migrate in great numbers but in small numbers but bringing a new economy, agriculture and herding, and new languages along with new cultures and religions. If we know little about the Turkic people who populated Europe and represent 80% of our DNA heritage as compared to 20% only to Indo-European people, we know for sure that they were the majority of the people as they are the vast majority of our DNA heritage. The two routes that imported religions and cultures led to different compromises and syntheses, and when the Christian faith took over the Mediterranean route to Rome it was the shortest way but it was not the only one and actually the eastern branch and the northern branch remained different and are still different as the Orthodox church that refuses the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. It is closer to the people, maybe more contemplative too.

The Cathars are plunging their roots into this old and deep division and they had to come from the East, the heart of the Orthodox faith actually, Bulgaria, maybe even farther east and north. The mystery is why they spread so fast and so deep in the Mediterranean zone. I may suggest that what some consider as the hatred of the Roman Empire and civilization survived in the hatred of the Roman Catholic church and its imperial organization and brilliance if not wasteful and vain riches.

CD1 track 7, "Beside the Cross" is a way to look at the crucifixion that is entirely centered on the suffering and the acceptance of that suffering because you have to accept suffering and not because that suffering is saving you. The salvation is not in the suffering of Jesus or his mother but in the sad and submissive contemplation of the suffering as if it were yours and into which you project yourselves. You have to feel the suffering if you want to be saved in your own mind and not in some future promised land that is virtual at most and unreal definitely.

CD1 track 12, the divorce of Eleanor of Aquitania from the French king Louis VII is one of these personal events that will change the face of Europe since it will create the rivalry between England and France that was to last for centuries, cause the Hundred Years War and so many other differences. But once again it is not this private event, this divorce that produced this rift. The divorce and the subsequent rift was caused by a deeper rift and it slightly shifted it from what it was to what it became. It was the rift between the South and South West of Europe and the northern part, and in France itself (which did not exist as a nation yet) between the Occitan southern half and the northern part that spoke a completely different language and had a completely different culture. But what brought this southern past of France to Catharism, the religion of the poor? Probably the refusal and rejection of Roman norms that goes back to the way the conquest of Gaul and Celtic Europe was done brutally destroying its language and culture, not to speak of its religion based on the local community and not the imperial hierarchy of power or spiritual references.

That probably has to do with the fact that the older form of spirituality in Indo-European and Turkic cultures was the RSI (Indo-European name): a man who was the carrier and conveyor, possessor and voice of all spiritual levels: poetry and language, including religious rites and addresses to god, priest since he had the ritual language under control, political power and memory of the community, hence the legal adviser and law defender. Apparently that unique character was split in Europe along with the migrations. The Slavs kept the priest and the soldier together, the Germans gave pre-eminence to the knight and soldier, the Celts gave pre-eminence to the priest (and detainer of language), the Mediterraneans gave pre-eminence to the political figure to the point that a general had to conquer political power to be really recognized in Greece or the Roman empire. Occitania retained the old Celtic culture of a personal, introspective religious faith contained in the local community.

CD1 Track 15, what a beautiful dirge for burning bodies assassinated by the flames of the intolerant. And the stakes are burning and the bodies are dissolving in flames and the very glory of the catholic god is enhanced by these cruel murders, isn't it. But the music is so beautiful, so bleak and sad. What vision of life and the world can the people who are living under these lethal drums of death have, if anything else than the exquisite pleasure of suffering? Is that contemplative vision of suffering the result of this barbaric age or the achievement of a higher level of spirituality? Never forget, never forgive such rage! It has no excuse. Let us come together in that beautiful sadness on CD1 track 21.

On CD2 track 5 some man tells how barbaric, hostile and treacherous the Cathars are, attacking in the back and encouraging thieves and murderers. CD2 track 6 is a call for vengeance, the vengeance of an offense done to God, the Catholic God, no one else, no real human person, just God. The Catholics are calling for vengeance because they are hurt in the Cathar lack of respect for their God, a God who is of Peace and Love. And yet it is vengeance that eliminates the heretics both physically and religiously. That's what they called peace and love. Peace for the Catholics and love for the Catholics. Where are peace and love for one's neighbor? It is in such joy at the prospect of killing in as much suffering as possible that we find out and know that man is not essentially good, nor evil, as for that, just human that is to say ready to do anything with joy provided it gives them survival and satisfaction. CD2 track 10 is the direct answer to the previous frivolous and dancelike evocation of the destruction of Beziers and it laments on the death of the Lord of Beziers. What joy can there be in killing? What mournful sufferance there is in being killed or witnessing an unjust murder! CD2 track 11 expresses in a few words the irreversible fate of such crimes that just get forgotten: ""neither man nor God not anyone on earth will hold it against them [the killing crusaders]."

On CD2 track 16 we have the epitaph for Simon de Montfort. The Crusader who killed so many and had so many killed is compared to Jesus who did not offer the flesh and blood of anyone else but himself. The comparison does not need any comment at all. The last track of this second CD is the absolute accusation of Rome as being inhuman and just ungodly in its very essence and we recapture a century old hatred of Rome, the conquering empire that had become the conquering Catholic church.

Now the tempest is finished CD3 starts with a different tone, a tone that may not sound as somber and sinister as before but in a way there is like a complacency and a cynicism that is definitely not very recommendable. The reading of the Papal rules of the Inquisition does not dispel that hypocritical and cynical atmosphere. In fact it makes both even deeper and more out of time and out of space, eternal in other words, an essence of man in his deep evil and the acceptance of that evil.

Track 5 shows how the victims or the survivors of this crusade are turning back to the catholic faith to try to alleviate, with praying all the suffering they have been through, and to get a promise that they won't be sent to hell, which would be an again. It's no longer the moaning and crying of them who suffer or have suffered but the slightly nostalgic tone and atmosphere of men who would like to forget, who would like to go back to peace even at the price of conforming to the winner's religion, which is after all nothing but a vestment that can cover anything you want. Track 10 pushes that cynicism one notch further and we feel that behind this nonchalant cynicism that is no blindness at all there still is the desire of a pure religion close to those who believe and practice. The reformation is in fact already hibernating under that cloak of ashes and that flood of blood.

This tone will be kept till the end though tracks 18 and 19 dedicated to Joan of Ark are slightly misplaced. The Hundred Year War is in no way the consequence of that crusade though it is the consequence of a rift in Europe between the English who started to invent modern democracy in 1215 with Magna Carta, hence to get rid of feudalism and France that was defending that feudalism and will push it so far that it will break in 1789. The shift then to the Ottoman Empire and the end of Eastern Catharism after the fall of Constantinople is historically farfetched.

Help other customers find the most helpful reviews 
Was this review helpful to you? Yes No

Be the first person to comment on this review.

[Add comment]
Post a comment
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Amazon will display this name with all your submissions, including reviews and discussion posts. (Learn more)
This badge will be assigned to you and will appear along with your name.
There was an error. Please try again.
Please see the full guidelines here.

Official Comment

As a representative of this product you can post one Official Comment on this review. It will appear immediately below the review wherever it is displayed.   Learn more
The following name and badge will be shown with this comment:
 (edit name)
After clicking on the Post button you will be asked to create your public name, which will be shown with all your contributions.

Is this your product?

If you are the author, artist, manufacturer or an official representative of this product, you can post an Official Comment on this review. It will appear immediately below the review wherever it is displayed.  Learn more
Otherwise, you can still post a regular comment on this review.

Is this your product?

If you are the author, artist, manufacturer or an official representative of this product, you can post an Official Comment on this review. It will appear immediately below the review wherever it is displayed.   Learn more
System timed out

We were unable to verify whether you represent the product. Please try again later, or retry now. Otherwise you can post a regular comment.

Since you previously posted an Official Comment, this comment will appear in the comment section below. You also have the option to edit your Official Comment.   Learn more
The maximum number of Official Comments have been posted. This comment will appear in the comment section below.   Learn more
Prompts for sign-in