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Showing 1-23 of 23 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 7 Dec 2008, 14:07:44 GMT
AJ says:
Questions; Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach - Have these band's evolved into something better, as in LP and PR's shift into a more trad Rock sound?
Are Limp Bizkit (Fred Durst aside) really that bad musically?
Is there still a place for DJ's in Rock? Do turntables add anything??
Anyone remember Mordred? - 1st ever Metal act to use a DJ.
Plenty of people have gotten into Hip Hop/Rap via such Crossover acts BUT do Hip Hop fans ever come the other way and start getting into Metal and Rock??

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Dec 2008, 16:39:31 GMT
MC Zaptone says:
Hi A.J.

There is a music scene in the states that is called HipHopRock (yeah, original name ain't it)
apparently because hip hop is so big in the US, this cross-over is gaining popularity with more kids being introduced to rock. you might to see a new Metal/Rock fan base.

The main man in this genre is Freddi-J if i remember right and maybe Keychain Music.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Dec 2008, 22:08:11 GMT
spiderboris says:
Well if rap-metal is in resurgence again then it's news to me... did it ever really go away? Maybe it's just my age, but I remember the nu-metal boom of ten years ago, which as I recall was really the first proper instance of truly 'heavy' music (ie mainly of the type with brutal downtuned riffs, screaming and occasionally rapping) getting played on mainstream daytime radio and starting to get into the charts and seep into public consciousness.

If you want to talk about survivors from that period... er. Well Korn are certainly still going, although hardly as well-respected as they were back then. Slipknot have surprisingly endured, Marilyn Manson has sort of faded out of view, The Deftones are one of the few I think who have truly transcended the nu-metal genre as it was then... Linkin Park, there was a raging argument for a while that they were some hideous manufactured metal version of Westlife, creted in a lab by evil svengalis hungry for angry-kid cash, but their last album certainly shows some progression. Well... apart from that song which just ripped off With Or Without You. Copying U2 is never really a progressive thing to do, ahemcoldplaycough cough.

Maybe I've stopped paying attention, but are Staind still slogging on? Or have Nickelback nicked their position? I actually remember some of Nickelback's early stuff being surprisingly heavy, although they have quite clearly reinvented themselves as the new kings of MOR and nu-Bon-Jovi-lite.

Also I'm aware that any percieved movement is largely a teenage sort of thing, going back to the 'of a certain age' sort of argument we've had elsewhere where a huge amount of people, perhaps 'of a certain age' wonder what all this hideous crash-bash noise is, while 'The Kids' hear the disaffected voices of a new generation.

Oh and Limp Bizkit... hm. I don't think they were ever any good really. Fred Durst was just an embarrasingly awful lyricist, I remember him citing Nirvana and Tool as some of his biggest influences... he obviously wasn't listening hard enough. There's nothing wrong with mixing rock and rap - it is possible, check out P.O.D., although I doubt anyone's going to do anything better in that field than Rage Against The Machine (and definitely not Kid Rock, as he is clearly needs to be tried for crimes against popular culture). Too many metal acts then and now just sound like grumpy teenage boys having a tantrum because girls don't like them and they hate everyone. Which is fine. If you're a grumpy teenage boy. I'm not.

But don't worry. Girls still don't like me. And I still hate everyone! So at least I can still listen to the Devil's Music and be happy...

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Dec 2008, 11:26:12 GMT
On the one hand the lyrics spewed out by Fred Durst, Papa Roach, Defontes etc were generally a pile of feebly self pitying load of old t*ss. On the other I still like the mashing up of crunching power chords and hip hop beats whether it's Pop Will Eat itself or Bizkit and the fact most NU Metal bands didnt bother with widdling. Why not keep turntables in rock. I likes a bit of scratching and sampling me. They defo add another layer to what could be just another load of dull guitar bands. I dont think you get many black kids coming over from hip hop into rock. I remember seeing Bodycount over 10 years ago at the Essential festival in Brighton and as I recall the only coloured faces were Ice T's and chums. Strange when you consider that loads of hip hop acts since Public Enemy and Run DMC have incorporated rock into their sound.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Dec 2008, 14:31:31 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Dec 2008, 14:36:44 GMT
spiderboris says:
Sorry to nitpick Nugent old chap, but the Deftones never went in for all that silly 'teenage angst, I hate myself' type lyrics. By and large Chino Moreno's words are abstract, poetic and often just plain weird, The lyrics on their first album are particularly bizarre, with little or no care given to grammar or sense. And they're still going strong, and have always quite huffily tried to distance themselves from being lumped in with other metal bands, often mentioning their influences as being stuff like Mogwai, PJ Harvey, Warp Records roster and other leftfield fare.

A great deal of nu-metal bands also seemed to take certain bands as templates, I think if you take Alice In Chains, Nirvana and Pearl Jam as examples of three generally great bands who begat a lot of rubbish or at least a lot of highly unoriginal copyists - just remembering Creed and Puddle Of Mudd among others, who only sounded as if they had only ever listened to the three above bands.

Papa Roach on the other hand I thought were just diabolical, that song Last Resort -which was one of those first 'nu-metal' tunes to crack the charts back in '98 or thereabouts - has got the most stupid, naive, dim-witted lyric imaginable, with all that childish ranting about suicide - 'could it be wrong, could it be right / If I took my life tonight, chances are that I might... Nothing's right, AND I'm crying!'

F**king hilarious! It's like a parody of a bad lyric! Although to kick myself in the face before someone else does, it did apparently have a huge impact on a lot of kids who were struggling with all manner of issues. Which is nothing to be laughed about really. Okay, not that much.

And Bodycount I believe were fairly pioneering in fusing rap and metal, at least from the perspective of a black rap artist dipping his toes in the predominantly white pond of rock. Perhaps unfortunately they were also largely to blame for Limp Bizkit and indirectly the whole nu-metal thing, good and bad. Also although forgot to mention that for a while at least it was also rather bizarrely known as 'sports metal' at least in the States, where the idea was that the typical fan was a high-school Jock (ie not a Scottish person) who appreciated that bullish braggadocio that was co-opted from hip-hop.

And a lot of it was also seen as a cynical attempt at cross-market promotion, trying to draw hip-hop kids into metal and vice versa. Or at least that was the idea. What this ultimately just resulted in was a load of white mopey Americans wearing baggy baseball gear and back-to-front caps so they looked like some US version of Kevin the Teenager or Ali G, throwing pseudo-gang-type hand gestures and going yo-yo, what up!

And what do we have now? Jay-Z rapping on a Coldplay track! And they call this progress?

It's all Durst's fault. Perhaps.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Dec 2008, 17:02:34 GMT
I take your point about the Deftones. spiderboris I was just coming up with some names at random. I'll substitute them with Linkin Park. Viz the rap rock hybrid thing IMO the best at this were Faith No More. An excellent band, but clearly they inspired a lot of feeble imitators who never even came within a sparrow's f@rt of nailing it.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Dec 2008, 22:34:09 GMT
AJ says:
On the thing about turntables, Ive got a mate at work who'se more into Dance but I've burned some Metal tunes for him and he digs it. Question, obvious bands aside, are there any other hard rock/metal acts out there that use a DJ or turntables? Are Incubus any good? Am I right in thinking they are more of a Progressive style act these days??

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Dec 2008, 11:14:40 GMT
SP Crowley says:
Most nu metal bands took all the crap bits of heavy metal and put a baseball cap on its head. Backwards.
They were listened to spotty young people in big shorts who soon grew out of it. The music, not the shorts.

Anyway, maybe I missed it, but no one's mentioned Anthrax who did all this rap metal thing years ago.

spiderboris - too right. Deftones have zilch in common with the rest of the cack mentioned on this page.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Dec 2008, 12:01:11 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Dec 2008, 12:02:30 GMT
Sera69 says:
Turntables? In Metal? Psshaw!! That's so passé! Mordred did that back in the 80's and very good they were, too. Deftones were always too good to be stuck in nu-metal. Linkin Park grew up when they got all that money and realised the angsty teenager thing doesn't work when you've got a mansion on the hill and several mil in the bank. Thankfully they also discovered some talent. So kudos to them. Durst was about 50 when nu-metal broke and probably couldn't believe his luck. Fair play to the man, he creamed the kids as much as he could, er... i mean creamed as much cash from the kids as he could and the last LB album (released without expectations or pretentions, advertising or hype) was... awful. Slipknot, for anyone that knows their history, were always more than the standard genre angst puppies and are deserving of their success. Vol 3 and All Hope Is Gone are great pieces of music. Manson was never anything other than Alice Cooper for a new generation, there will be another one along soon who thinks he's doing something new and the kids'll fall for it all over again. But that's the folly of youth for ya. Still, it was worth it to see Dita Von Teese in the Rock papers. Nickelback have some serious tongue in cheek humour going on in their songs (not to mention a pretty wild xxx streak!) It's unfortunate that they got so big so quick and that their line in irony is lost on so much of America, where 'Rock Star' is treated as a "How to..." rather than a critique (They never got Springsteens 'Born in the USA' either... Go figure. Tells you a lot, i think.) They still suck, tho. America's Status Quo, anyone? As for the rest, well, the good will out i guess, Staind, POD, Papa Roach etc tried and failed, like the also rans in any genre pool they failed to evolve and break out.

The Hip-Hop Metal thing has produced some great stuff from the acceptance of guitars and rock beats in something like Kano's 'Typical me' and the very metal 'The Great Depression' by Rap stalwart DMX, to metal/alternative fans accepting Gym Class Heroes. Personally i love the cross pollination of genres and am thoroughly looking forward to ColdPlay getting their ass popped by a cap when they try and go Gangsta. (Please, God...)

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Dec 2008, 16:08:48 GMT
AJ says:
Great to see someone remembers Mordred! They were doing the Metal/Funk/DJ vibe YEARS before the rest. They were seriously good players technically - kind of Faith No More/Public Enemy/Metallica/RHCP/Rush/Police hybrid! And it worked!
A LOT of later bands owe them - I only wish they were stil active :-(

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Dec 2008, 01:26:53 GMT
Finch Mckee says:
well i've got to say staind aren't nu metal in my opinion, linkin park, papa roach and limp bizkit are, but staind are completely different...
i'd put them more alongside bands like seether, they're not trying to become metal celebrities, whereas limp bizkit, and to a slightly lesser extent linkin park quite clearly are

saying that, i do like linkin park, but they're not as sincere as staind and seether

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Jan 2009, 18:28:30 GMT
AJ says:
Just on the issue of turntables, I took a risk & bought a GREAT album off Amazon - DJ Shadow' s Endtroducing . Different from my usual stuff, and I was really impressed with the 'instrumental hip hop' sound! Definiteley musical enough to appeal to Rock fans.

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Jan 2009, 17:58:16 GMT
Krytical says:
Incubus are "progressive" I guess, very chilled but talented.

Staind may not now be Nu Metal but they were, they were out at the same time, the music did possess the depression n the angst to appeal to the "misunderstood" youth and let us not forget the did taint themselves by dueting with Durst!

I found Soggy Digestive a brilliant comedy act - the music was very entertaining!! I did find Behind Blue Eye a good cover but that was many years after the NU phase. And what happened to Mr Durst??? Last I heard he had received the US version of an ASBO and ordered to be nice. This could be utter rubbish but it just goes to show how little I actually care as I haven't quantified this report. Oh well.

Can we list the line up?
Limp Bizkit
Linkin Park
Slipknot (VERY impressed with how they progressed)
System Of A Down - Do they deserve to be in here??
Puddle Of Mudd - tried but too soft in my opinion
Pappa Roach
Hed (PE)

Who else?

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Jan 2009, 20:46:38 GMT
AJ says:
Heard a lot of good stuff about Incubus - any particular albums to recommend??

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Jan 2009, 23:10:05 GMT
Last edited by the author on 12 Jan 2009, 23:12:41 GMT
spiderboris says:
They're a bit odd, Incubus, they kind of started out as a funk-hip-hop type outfit before going a lot more nu-metal, kind of like the Chili Peppers crossed with the Deftones. Despite Yourself is pretty good, although S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is quite schizophrenic and bizarre...

And I might have to take it back re Durst, was listening to the Bizkit mini-album The Unquestionable Truth Pt. 1 and it's pretty flipping heavy. Although a lot of that I suspect is down to their on-off guitarist Wes Borland (the one who used to dress up like a grease-painted alien) who I think usually comes up with most of the music. All Durst ever really used to do was go 'yeaah!' and rap badly, but he does seem to have figured out how to sing a bit and at least sound believably angry in a Henry-Rollins-kinda fashion, on that album at least.

And I did used to quite like Mudvayne (or mUdVaYnE, as I believe they used to spell it,) who were compared a lot to Slipknot mainly because they were quite thrash-indebted and used to wear a succession of out-there costumes, but they also messed about with weird proggy time signatures and conceptual ideas - they did once credit the 'art' of Damien Hirst as an influence, although it might be hard to spot that among all the riffing and growling... The End Of All Things To Come is a pretty good album. And most of their songs seem to be about serial killers. Which is always fun...

And I think System Of A Down were nu-metal, but they were a bit too serious - and a bit too ridiculous - to stay down with the baggy pants brigade for too long...

And Nickelback! They were nearly nu-metal! Now they're just nu-Jovi...

In reply to an earlier post on 12 Jan 2009, 23:23:26 GMT
AJ says:
Yeah, the Unquestionable Truth is a decent album; the song called The Truth, that's a serious riff! And the bass player is up there with anyone.
Basically, The Chocolate Starfish album was 90% sh*te apart from 1 song that sounded great after 6 pints of Guiness. That album did them a lot of harm, but as much of an ahole as Durst can be, musically they aren't that bad really. Results May Vary from 2003 isn't a bad album, and Durst can pen a decent tune IF he knocks the immature swearing off. It's strange really because in 2000 these guys were held up as the best thing in Metal - they are an example of how fickle the metal crowd in particular can be!

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Feb 2009, 17:16:23 GMT

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Feb 2009, 21:02:00 GMT
FDJ says:
My mothers steam iron! apparently it,s made of a new kind of metal that won,t stick.I hope this helps?

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Feb 2009, 22:31:28 GMT
AJ says:
Speak Up Lad! I can't hear you ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Feb 2009, 22:14:47 GMT
D. Reynolds says:
Nu Metal = Pu Metal. Let's hear it for True Metal! Hail Manowar! Death to False Metal!

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Feb 2009, 23:31:58 GMT
Sera69 says:
Nu Metal = New
Pu Metal = Pew

Is this the Stryper revival??????

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Oct 2011, 23:17:53 BST
Last edited by the author on 11 Oct 2011, 23:20:48 BST
pricey says:
incubus albums get all of em!!! each one is different and you'll never get the same style of song twice. utterly unique and ever so talented. i notice this post is a couple of years old, i hope you have their back catalogue by now.

Posted on 13 Oct 2011, 19:33:53 BST
Last edited by the author on 13 Oct 2011, 19:34:51 BST
? says:
F*ck me, what a resurrection, 2 year old thread back from the dead lol!

Nu metal was sh*t. Worse stain on the music world since grunge made kids dress in checked shirts and faded jeans and worship at the 3 chord wonders that called themselves nirvana. Of course this is all personal opinion :)

Bring on the true metal, Manowar playing the uk for the first time in 16 years in November, f*ck yeah! Form is temporary, class is permanent.
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Discussion in:  rock discussion forum
Participants:  13
Total posts:  23
Initial post:  7 Dec 2008
Latest post:  13 Oct 2011

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