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Customer Discussions > rhythm and blues discussion forum

Aretha Franklin - All Hail The Queen!!

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Showing 1-15 of 15 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 10 Mar 2011, 17:37:53 GMT
Last edited by the author on 10 Mar 2011, 18:22:41 GMT
Mr. P says:
Aretha's Jazz....

Take a Look: Complete on Columbia [Box set]

Release date: March 22, 2011


The package includes CDs of Aretha's seven full-length albums for Columbia; two CDs reflecting her collaborations with producers Bobby Scott (in 1963) and Clyde Otis (in 1964); and a bonus CD of singles produced by Bob Johnston and rarities that were "sweetened" and released after Aretha left the label.

The set will also includes a DVD featuring Aretha, at the piano, performing several songs on The Steve Allen Show in 1964.

Among the highlights of Take a Look is a previously unreleased version of Yeah!!! In Person With Her Quartet which strips away the artificial club ambience that was added to the album's studio performances, revealing Aretha at the peak of her powers.

Another high point is an unreleased album called A Bit of Soul. Though it contains previously released material, the original album is presented here for the first time in its master form.

Other revelations include riveting studio conversation between Aretha, John Hammond and Jazz pianist Ray Bryant during the making of Aretha's debut album in the summer of 1960.

The lavish set will include a 48-page booklet, designed by Michael Boland, with never-before-seen photos by Columbia staff photographer Don Hunstein; an excerpt from John Hammond's 1977 autobiography, On Record, in which he reflects on the joy of discovering a singular talent and the heartbreak of losing her to Atlantic; and a newly commissioned essay by Daphne Brooks, a Professor of English & African American Studies at Princeton University and the author of Grace, about the making of the classic Jeff Buckley album, for the acclaimed 33 1/3 series (published by Continuum).

The stunning performances on Take a Look demonstrate how Aretha Franklin paved the path to her own greatness. From Jazz standards to show tunes to Bebop to Blues!

Disc 12 -DVD Track Listing:
1. Lover Come Back To Me
2. Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody
3. Won't Be Long
4. Skylark
5. Evil Gal Blues

Take a Look: Complete on Columbia


Posted on 30 Jul 2011, 00:32:28 BST
JJMMWGDuPree says:
I always thought sister Carolyn was better. I guess that shows how much I know...

In reply to an earlier post on 13 Mar 2012, 21:43:24 GMT
I always felt she was overated, and the real soul queen is Brenda Holloway.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012, 00:46:17 GMT
Geffers says:
MR P The Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody ,track was released in Britain as a single with Operation Heartbreak on the B side . It is a well documented fact that Aretha was unhappy at Columbia with John Hammond and the various styles that she recorded in .Once she had joined Atlantic she gave full vent to her gospel style and I Never Loved a Man[ The Way I Loved You] paved the way to her huge success. Columbia were still releasing her albums such as Today I Sing The Blues and Soft and Beautiful up to three years after she had joined Atlantic.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012, 20:11:56 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012, 20:29:51 GMT
Mr. P says:
Geffers, LMAO! U just cant help yourself can u!? ;)

Please believe me I really aint tryin to be contrary. But your post just forwards a complete fallacy about Aretha's Columbia period. And in fact its not that well documented but has been repeated by a few who clearly seem to accept it without evidence. Its become a popular piece of misinformation that first appeared in the early 90's compilation notes of the 'Jazz To Soul' cd written by a person known by many to be a very disgruntled associate [who was bitter he hadnt managed Aretha.] It is also repeated just once more by a producer [who had nothing to do with Aretha or her recordings] in the film When The Music Dies. Both assertions are completely groundless and as the evidence shows... utterly false.

And, if u actually interested...here's why nothing u posted is in anyway based in fact....and the Truth is actually the complete opposite:

*Firstly, Aretha has stated on record in both interview and biography that she loved her Columbia material. And her time at Columbia. John Hammond has also made this statement loud and clear on record, making it clear he just fascilitated Aretha's path.

*As the extensive and thoroughly researched essay within this very boxset by Daphne Brooks, a Professor of English & African American Studies at Princeton University, makes absolutely clear: Contrary to recent rewritings of music history; Jazz and R&B was the cool music of the hepkat at this time [60-63] and Aretha wanted to follow in the footsteps of her idol's career, Dinah Washington. And when Soul music exloded in 63, as did many, Aretha felt it was a bit of a fad [yup, the Queen of Soul!!] as she always HAD soul! This is all documented by Hammond, Aretha and producers.

*Aretha while a late teenage and young women at this stage was also very single minded and chose both primarily her material herself but often the arrangements. She worked with several Black Jazz musicians of her own choice and was very much in control of the recording process. This is backed up by producers, musicians and Hammonds notes and actual recordings of Arethas dialog between takes of her debut album. On production notes, Hammonds biography and on recently found studio dialog from the recordings of Aretha's first Columbia album [Aretha 1960, aged 19] Aretha was very much verbally outspoken and involved in the recording process. On these very albums extra recording excerpts you can here Aretha chastizin a producer for interupting a take because he didnt understand the music....and she sticks up for her fellow musicians stating he had it right. Now see below....

* In contrast Aretha was initially very unhappy with Atlantic records. Especially the first recording of 'I never Loved A Man' LP as she didnt have her choice of Black musicians and had lost the level of artistic control she had at Columbia. With barely the frst song in the can Aretha walked out and contemplated leaving her contract. She didnt like the musicians ["bunch of old red necks" in their own words] and particulary the trumpeter. She didnt feel they understood the music they way her Columbia musicians did and that they were ignorant and disprespectful. She also hated the lack of automony. This is all widely documented by Aretha and in the 'Never Loved A Man" book detailing the making of Souls greatest record. Look it up. Aretha had to be coaxed back to the studio!

* At Columbia Aretha became the artist to watch by many a Jazz journo at the time. Downbeat stated she was the next big thing! And for a while and a few nationally popular singles later Aretha's star was on the ascent. However, with the change in music styles by the mid 60's meant she needed a change of direction to get more crossover success. Its often forgotton because her popularity and international acclaim at Atlantic overshadows it sometimes, but Aretha was a respected new voice in R&B/Jazz way before her crowning as Queen Of Soul. Its just some peeps dont want to acknowledge this.

* Aretha renewed her own contract annually. She was not under some svengali-like grip. She chose to stay at Columbia between 60-66 for a reason, she wanted to. She primarily wanted to do Jazz, R&B American Songbook Standards and Gospel [the most popular thing to do at that time]. And as time went on and Soul music took its grip in the mid 60's she did actually do some covers of mid 60's Soul singles of the day. Aretha had the artistic freedom.

* It is documented that during this early period Aretha was initially crowned 'Queen Of The Blues' by journos and fellow musicians after the death of Dinah Washington. This title was still used on a 68 US tour. Also, all thruout Aretha's Atlantic period she also, alongside typical 60's/early 70's Soul\Funk, continued to record Blues, Jazz and Gospel standards or arrangements on nearly every Atlantic album...sometimes releasing a whole Gospel album or an album heavily swayed to Jazz n Blues [Hey Now How, Spirit In The Dark.] [Today I Sing The Blues her first hit singleon Columbia was also recordedat Atlantic]. If Aretha was ever not happy with the style of music at Columbia, why did she continue to record it at Atlantic? Aretha never stopped recording Rhytmn n Blues/Jazz tunes, she just added Soul and Funk to her reportoire. And Aretha still does today and rarely performs live without at least a medley of Columbia tunes in her set. Its just in the public conception the whole Queen of Soul title has tended to become a blanket description.

* When Aretha joined Atlantic, Columbia re-released a few of her sides there remixed with Funky basslines and Soul style horns to cash in on her now international fame. Aretha responded by taking Columbia to court with a statement she was very unhappy with the rearrangements of this material which she felt was good as it was originally recorded. As Hammond makes clear in his notes, they made a big mistake, it cost them considerable damages in financial compensation. Clearly Aretha loved this material and punished any attemp to 'Soulify' it.

*Any listen to this Columbia material makes a complete nonsense of any argument that she didnt give full vent to her gospel style of singing. When she so felt the need nobody stopped Aretha gettin all church! If she so felt it was needed whatever style of R&B; she done it. It just came naturally!
Aretha was the finished article! And there is plenty of material on Columbia [not to mention her Gospel album in 57] thats shows Aretha takin it to church. In fact any assertion otherwise just displays a distinct lack of experience/knowledge of Aretha Franklin's Columbia material, possibly her Atlantic material beyond the hits and most probably both!

Now dont take my word for any of this. Go check it out yourself [especially before you post anotha ill-researched reply!]

As always....the music [and in this case tv footage] says it more than the words....

Aretha [at Columbia] on The Steve Allen show doin Jazz & Blues ....and "bringin the Church 2 the Jukejoint!"...

Evil Gal Blues

Wont Be Long

Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody

Lover Come Back To Me

Nuff said!

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2012, 21:25:02 GMT
Last edited by the author on 22 Mar 2012, 21:26:47 GMT
Geffers says:
MR P, Aretha's years at Columbia have always been the most controversial for her legion of fans and for music critics.When we look at the body of work that she produced in those years the standard is indeed high the problem that arose was in the fact that musically she was pulled in too many directions.During the Columbia years she was hailed as The Queen of Soul but despite her versatility in brilliantly handling various vocal styles such as jazz,pop type tunes and standards her commercial success,ie chart action,was limited .Towards the end of her time at Columbia after they had really failed somewhat in bringing out the latent talent that was brewing,just waiting for the right material ,things did take a more soulful approach when she was produced by Clyde Otis .In consultation with her then husband she decided to not renew her yearly contract and was snapped up by Jerry Wexler at Atlantic. You are right about things not going too smoothly with her first recordings I believe Jerry took Aretha down to Muscle Shoals where she would record with the musicians from the Fame studios. Before things got started there was a row between Aretha's husband and the band members which ended up with Jerry flying all and sundry back to NY for her first session .This really was only a temporary blip and she went on to become the soul diva we all know today. Looking back on her Columbia years Aretha probably knows that despite her wealth, that back catalogue is still able to produce a very substantial income . I at one time owned the album Aretha with the Ray Bryant combo but I sold it as it did not appeal to me all that much .She made the right decision to leave Columbia ,had she stayed on she may have ended up despite her talent as an also ran such as Barbara Lewis or Betty Everett.Her Columbia albums are perfectly acceptable but her real soul side truly took off at Atlantic and it is her body of work there that made her a household name and provided her a much wider audience... A little more LMAO for you cheers GEOFF

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012, 13:33:13 GMT
Last edited by the author on 23 Mar 2012, 13:38:28 GMT
Mr. P says:
No Geffers,

Aretha's years at Columbia have NOT 'always been the most controversial for her.' [In fact its u who choose to use this 'controversial' label.] Its is just been something that has been jumped on in recent years. [Usually by folks who dont know her full Columbia back catalog]. Trust me, u are just repeating an erroneous statement that first appeared in the notes of a 1990's Columbia collection. It has no grounding in fact. Period!

This pitiful need to sound superior and knowledgable by repeating groundless claims is highlighted within this very boxset essay [by real experts] as the reason for such misinformation being recently passed on. U, Geffers, are part of the problem that the essay successfully readdresses, with primary evidence!....and yet u still continue to make groundless statements based on little repeated quotes and your own opinion.

And your comments just prove to confirm u really dont know what u are talkin about here [owning her Columbia debut and repeating unfounded critics comments in not a basis of primary or secondary evidence!]

Aretha's move from Columbia was due to the declining sales that the Jazz/R&B material she was recording....but that was an overrall effect in the mid-60s as one Black popular music was superceeded by the new Soul music genre. [And nothing to do with not bringing her talents out....Aretha was the finished article! You'd know this if u truly knew her full catalog instead of just repeating false platitudes u heard somewhere.] And its clear if u really knew the complete back catalog of Atlantic recordings u'd know she did similar songs to her early career all thru the Atlantic years.

Your argument just doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

Its very apparent u habitually miss whole evidence sources quoted if it doesnt suit your myopic opinion.

Now, u may not like the Columbia material that much [and really it sounds like you've heard so little even to be commenting here] but it doesnt change the fact that Aretha was happy with this period [even when her sales declined as the evidence showed.] And yes, while her new contract and the addition of Soul arrrangements at Atlantic in the lates 60's did hit the zeitgiezt of the times and make her an international artist....it is purely just subjective opininion as to whether she had any less or more 'soul' in her songs. And as the previous links show....u'd have 2 have no pulse not to feel the soul in those Columbia tunes.

And, lets be clear.....no amount of knee-jerk, long, subjective ill-informed posts that put forward tired journalism [of the last few decades that are clearly without basis in fact] as evidence does not make your point any more valid.

Here's a clue.....it actually does the opposite.

I've noticed u are very prone to make sweeping generalizations, based on merely a belief held by u, without any real evidence to back it up. Or you repeat ill-informed comments gained via lazy/generalistic mainstreamm journalism from a few populist sources, including Wikipedia - Rookie mistake!]....and its clear u do all this 2 make yourself sound knowledgable.

I've met your type online from time 2 time. Desperately needing to sound like some music oracle. [And some do fall for it]. In reality your need to feed your ego just makes u look like someone who wants to sound knowledgable by repeating this ill-researched, poorly sourced opinion and passing it as factual knowledge.

Try actually listening....hearing....the music first.

As these few posts on this thread display you are more concerned about massaging your ego as an 'expert' than really entering into any real research about the subject.

And it is for that reason that I'm out.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Apr 2012, 17:10:29 BST
Aretha's voice is not what it once was. But she's got an incredible body or legacy of work and she was the essense of soul. Her Take A Look set shows that she was always a brilliant soul singer. Her sisters Erma and Carolyn were good, but not the talent that she was.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jul 2012, 20:59:15 BST
Geffers says:
Its not that I entirely disagree with every thing that you have written but I still maintain that Aretha had she stayed at Columbia would probably ended up as an also ran .Of course she had a kind of fame at Columbia but in truth it was only a close circle of musicians and other soul/ gospel singers who could see the latent potential that would be bought to fruition once she had signed with Atlantic. Even Jerry Wexler wasn't too sure of how she would work out and the fact that she signed for what even back then was a measly $25,000 gave some proof of the fact that she was not the huge star then that you seem to make her out to be .By saying this I am not in any way decrying her talent,, just saying that she had not been a commercial success . There is no doubt irrespective of what you say that not only were Columbia confused in how to handle her repertoire but Aretha also was confused as to how to handle ,in her own words ,the music in me .She veered in all directions musically ,smooth show tunes ,ballads ,pop and R&b all failing to make their mark commercially.Its true she did not have a very good start at Atlantic despite Wexler putting her name about just every where he could ,industry insiders were watching very closely to see how his latest signing was going to pay back the faith that he had in her. Many of the Memphis crew who were to back her first session had little idea who Aretha was but they soon found out once she started singing and pounding the piano keys.but that's all another story.As I have said before but you in your selective rubbishing of any of my writing have chosen to ignore ,music has basically two reasons to exist one to give pleasure to performer and listener and two to make money ,it is a product just like anything else.Aretha Franklin still has a vested interest in her Columbia recordings because they are in their re- issued form still a nice little earner for her.Joining Atlantic was the catalyst that ignited her already considerable talent she had an incredible string of big hits right from the start and although her life would maintain its highs and lows including her demise at Atlantic it was her time there that elevated her to the status Queen of Soul.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jul 2012, 21:28:59 BST
Mr. P says:
oh good lord man....

Go listen to the music of the time closely and learn 2 distinguish between music that 'has soul' and the actual genre of Soul music.

Then go read Aretha Franklins biography.

the complete analysis of Aretha's time at Columbia....when at that time il post 63 there was no Soul music as a genre....just Jazz n Blues...often by then called Rhythm n Blues....Soul was a term meant for either having soul or Gospel.....u really need 2 read this as it is both primary and secondary evidence that completely dispels alot of what u may have read before.....for instance....initially Aretha was happier and more in control of her music at Columbia than she was at Atlantic [she walked out during first Atlantic album cos of the lack of say in production.

Acknowledge that whatever fantasy u have about Aretha....what she recorded at Columbia was exactly what she wanted 2 do. Whether u like it or not.

Then....consider getting a life.

Posted on 26 Jul 2012, 04:02:34 BST
Aretha - always been the Queen in my eyes. There are others with sweet voices, but not the quantity of songs that Aretha has had.
My main regret, if she did not have a fear of flying, she could of been a lot popular abroad as well. I don't think she's ever been to Europe.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jul 2012, 18:17:29 BST
[Deleted by the author on 27 Jul 2012, 18:17:46 BST]

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Jul 2012, 20:23:23 BST
Geffers says:
Mr P, Gullible must be your middle name .As usual with all your posts you charge on without any understanding of other peoples points of view or indeed any real critique of facts. I have read many biographies of musical artists and one always has to form an opinion from the sum parts of other forms of information Of course you believe everything that you have read in Aretha's biography to be the gospel truth ,in fact much has been missed out .Aretha is notoriously reticent to talk about much of her life .When Mark Bebo interviewed her for the book he was writing about her he was given a long list of things that were no no's in regards to her past . Look at her past and the psychiatry she has undergone and one begins to see a pattern emerge that she has never really addressed in public.The problem marriages ,giving birth at fifteen ,the fact that everyone expected her to be a star [which she was but after a long apprenticeship] ,I don't think she is happy ,Mahalia Jacksons words [not mine ]YOU must learn to read between the lines . Aretha had full control of her repertoire at Atlantic , she bought with her, her first song at the Muscle Shoals session ,I Never Loved a Man [The way I loved You] ,written by Ronnie Shannon at the request of her husband and manager Ted White. Rick Hall and the musicians he had assembled [yes I do know who they were ] did not see much in the song but big surprises all round when they heard the finished product after Wexler had finished it off in New York .Jerry hawked that recording to every R&B jock that he knew and the rest is history .In some ways if you knew the slightest thing about record production ,pay scales and a thing called profit and loss ,you would wonder in some respects how with so very few hits Aretha was able to stay at Columbia for such a long time.Her talent was plain to see but harnessing it to the correct vehicle ,that was the problem ,by the end she was so disillusioned that she did not even want to enter the recording studios after failing with nine albums although they did sell quite well over a long period after she had left Columbia .Every thing was tried ,all types of music ,all failing at the time to ignite the huge following that she had at the beginning of the Atlantic years . Even the most talented Marty Paich and his son David failed to produce the big one with her for Columbia . It's interesting to note that despite a huge row at the first Rick Hall session between Ted White and some of the musicians which ended with every one high tailing it back to NY he did recognise that at last Aretha had hit pay-dirt and consequently had a group called the Dynamics whom he also managed sent down south for sessions with the same musicians. Prior to signing with Columbia there had been some moves to get her to RCA and even Motown. ,Franklin and Gordy would have been a total disaster ,Aretha would never have tolerated Gordy's virtual running of everything about his artists lives and what they recorded. Contrary to what you probably think I am a great admirer of Aretha but as with all artists not every thing that they turn out is always first class. Some of her biggest hits I can leave alone while liking some of her less well known [ well to the general public] recordings ,one I have always liked is Aint no way ,but again I like it as much for the backing track with Cissy Houston as for Aretha's singing . So remember ,read other peoples points of view ,check from all sources your facts ,and don't just cherry pick on peoples posts things you think you can score points on ,oh and by the way I have a life ,where has yours gone to.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jul 2012, 10:09:31 BST
Last edited by the author on 28 Jul 2012, 10:29:34 BST
Mr. P says:
Ok, this is the last post....

U clearly misinterpreted/misread the fact that I have been using many sources. At no point, never did I imply that I just used Aretha's biog...and it is a difficult and censored account, tho in personal terms, not musical ones which is why it is one of the many sources I have used...if u had properly read my posts on this subject u wouldnt have made that mistake.

As a Jungian Psychoanalyst, I have had much experience and cannot analyse or make an assessment on any situation or person without 'reading between the lines'....so 2 speak. The process that I myself have undertaken in facing myself and the years of experience in analysis mean that I hear both the conscious and the [sub] unconscious with people....it is why I listen 2 not just what people say, but how and why...I hear and recognize their complexes, trauma and issues....it is why I do not take anything as fact what people say....and why I recognize u are not really interetsed in finding a competent analysis of the subject in question...but are overcompensating for your insecurity by being led by your ego...it is too important 4 u 2 sound like an authority here....u need 2 keep this psychodrama going.....thats why u came back and started the interaction again.

Only thing worse 4 u than being seen as someone who has swallowed and regugitates unaccurate, oversimplified mainstream journalism as knowledge 2 sound like some kinda expert on these threads....is when u are just completely ignored. Thats unbearable 4 u.

Aretha's later success did have something to do with the addition of Soul Music [the genre, and she still continued 2 do Blues, Jazz & Gospel] at Atlantic....Soul was the new kid on the block, it was its time [even tho she was somewhat late 2 the game.] And Atlantic had the interetst in her to promote her...and she had international success.

And yes, Columbia did increasingly have less success with marketing Aretha [partly as R&B was moving from Blues/Doo W*p & Jazz in2 Soul]...but mainly cos Columbia [as Miles Davis attests 2 in his book] they didnt bother promoting Black artists with the same level as the White artists [Doris Day was best selling artist at the time of Aretha's debut there.]

But as the many sources I have quoted on these posts prior show...until 63.....Jazz was still the cool hip sound of young Black artists, Aretha wanted 2 do this material.....and had in comparison to her ealrly Atlantic years way more autonomy in her choice of material, musicians, arrangements and output.....it was always Aretha's decision to renew her contract.

Also, if u do a deeper research in2 this period.....u will find that while way smaller than the international success she was 2 gain lata....Aretha had success/popularity at Columbia. True, if they had worked harder at promoting her, she coulda been even bigger nationally....Its also true that a few years around the corner the Black musical landscape would change again and this would also be key to the sales of her material declining......

And if u read ALL of the primary and secondary evidence of Aretha's first recordings at Atlantic...u will see it is not the happy fit u make it out to be and Aretha walked out for a reason....and all involved site the fact she suddenly had LESS autonomy and say in production/arrangement than she had at Columbia. Do on search on Aretha's quote about her time at Columbia and u will see she is very proud of this time....and that when Columbia tried to 'Soulify' these recordings 2 cash in on her late 60's success..she sued them sunbstantially.

This nonsense that somehow she needed 2 be lead, or 'go back 2 the piano/church' or was misdirected at Columbia artistically and Atlantic knew how 2 guide her is an unmitigated myth....which has been identifed as coming from a [questionable] source in the 'Jazz To Soul' compilation liner notes.

The extensive [with exhausting sources] booklet essay that comes with the 'Take A Look' boxset is a balanced, accurate reappraisal of Aretha's Columbia years. U might want to start here before u drop anymore posts.

This Columbiia material was the music of the time [60-63]....this was the music Aretha wanted 2 do [again and again she states she wanted a career like her idol Dinah Washington]. She had success....but more she had respect of Jazz musicans and critics at the time....Downbeat hailed her as the new star of female Jazz vocal. She played with the likes of Coltrane as accompanyment in Harlem jams....her popularity was ascending...she was hailed as the New Queen Of THe Blues [after Dinah Washington's death in 63].....Columbia captilized on this success....Aretha was happy......then....

Then the musical landscape started 2 shift again....Columbia's mistake was in their later insecurity as to whether 2 promote her in the R&B world or the pop stylist world....and seemed on the whole by 66 to have given up. Only then was Aretha ready 2 move on. And while, as we now know was a smart move in hindsight,... at that time, the move....initially.....was a very unhappy and frustrating adaption for her.

Now, thats it. If u wish 2 try an spin this again towards some fantasy that Aretha was not the finished product til Atlantic got hold of her [which just displays u read and believed one bitter comment from a linernote and clearly havent really heard and metabolized her complete recordings between 57 and 75] then u go ahead.

And a response, of any kind so u can go thru this 'drama' of sounding like an oracle on these threads is not one I'm going 2 humor anymore. Your ego wont let go...But u wont get a response from me anymore.

Good night & good luck.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jul 2012, 15:09:54 BST
Last edited by the author on 29 Jul 2012, 20:47:03 BST
Geffers says:
Well I suppose I must thank you for your reply but it was no more than I expected in content. I won't go on and make this reply too lengthy as you probably will not read it anyway but I still have a right to defend myself. Bringing Carl Jung's name into a discussion about Aretha Franklin's recording career must surely be a first and again you are back-pedalling on what you actually said ..In your post dated 25 July you implored me to [in your very own words];THEN GO AND READ ARETHA'S BIOGRAPHY,THE COMPLETE ANALYSIS OF ARETHA'S TIME AT COLUMBIA,no mention there then of seeking knowledge from other sources [why would you her word is gospel] ,but now after my last post to you,you have changed your mind and follow in my footsteps of checking info from multiple sources .As I have pointed out before I do not disagree with all that you write most of our disagreement seems to centre around only the Columbia years,it's just that with you there is never any room for discussion or seeking out any one else's take on things and this does not just apply to how you see my views I have noticed it in other posts that you write on .Jung suffered a psychotic breakdown in his middle years so if I were you I would steer clear of his and Mr Freud's teachings . I have no ego to massage ,just a desire to converse with people who can read and above all understand the subjects we all hold dear to our hearts .Thank you for your good luck wishes ,I return them as I think you may need them more than me..regards Geoff
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