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Who God is and Who God is not.


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Showing 1-25 of 157 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 8 Mar 2014 03:05:44 GMT
Tom M says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 03:11:51 GMT
Typical Catholic Mantra, attempting to groom the gullible. Probably aimed at the under 16's, like most of the Catholic clergy's targets.

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 03:33:54 GMT
Anita says:
When I saw the thread title I felt pretty sure it was started by an atheist... :)

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 04:04:57 GMT
Tom M says:
Cowards , any time now should work up the balls to start addressing the massive sex abuse that exists outside the Catholic church. Sick creeps will be sick creeps, but the response from Benedict and the Vatican , the US conference of Bishops and the Canadian bishops and elsewhere in the church been extremely effective. An average of 8 serious allegations in the US serving 70,000,000.

Not bad.

And now.. where the abuse has never even been looked at... for all the creeps who will use even the sexual abuse of minors as a useful weapon while ... so ironically.. not giving a damn about the kid being raped at the school down the street or in a neigbor's house.

Time for the sickos to turn their sick little lives towards the real problems.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 04:06:30 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Mar 2014 04:07:26 GMT
Tom M says:
Actually it references David Bentley Hart, an Eastern Orthodox scholar who has written some excellent books, and treats of what an intelligent person is talking about when speaking of God. Most atheists would not even recognize it.

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 04:10:01 GMT
Tom M says:
Anita.. don't feed your cat without getting its assent first. Or if this confuses you , check with Mrs Shaw who thinks its wrong to do things to animals without their full and informed consent.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 04:16:13 GMT
"Cowards , any time now should work up the balls to start addressing the massive sex abuse that exists outside the Catholic church."

I agree. I've heard the CoE are trying to address a similar problem.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 07:02:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Mar 2014 07:08:43 GMT
Drew Jones says:
This is just the sophisticated theology fallacy. To moan when sceptics criticise a meaningful but falsifiable god and instead redefine and substitute the god proposition criticised for one that is meaningless and by that quality unfalsifiable, just to say 'so you didn't understand or get *my god*' is not as smart as it thinks it is.

What do you make of Fr. Barron contradicting your often made claim that good science supports theism when he says science is not in the business of informing on his god's (which I assume you believe to be the same as your god) existence?

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 07:02:41 GMT
[Deleted by Amazon on 8 Mar 2014 11:05:06 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 07:37:18 GMT
Drew Jones says:
If your stats are right and the Catholic Church is looking after 70 million kids, that doesn't leave many for the public school system to work with. They'd have to have nearly every under 18 year old in their care. Do you think you may have some bad stats again?

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 10:13:23 GMT
[Deleted by Amazon on 8 Mar 2014 10:29:27 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 11:50:49 GMT
Tom M says:
Actually it references David Bentley Hart, an Eastern Orthodox scholar who has written some excellent books, and treats of what an intelligent person is talking about when speaking of God. Most atheists would not even recognize it.

'Most atheists would not even recognize it'

As even remotely intelligent you mean? I agree, ancient myths about virgin births and ghostly impregnations, along with 6 day creation myths and talking snakes are not recognised by most sane people in the 21st century as intelligent.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 11:54:09 GMT
[Deleted by Amazon on 8 Mar 2014 12:10:39 GMT]

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 11:54:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Mar 2014 11:54:29 GMT
Note the idler's assumption that there is a 'god' at all...

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 11:54:25 GMT
Why would that be addressed on here? This site is for the discussion of topics related to religion, so the endemic abuse that has been widely perpetrated within the catholic priesthood is a salient topic for discussion, why are you so annoyed at topics to try and fathom why this egregious abuse of children occurred, and how to stop it and bring the guilty to justice, and compensate the victims of this horrendous crime?

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 12:02:19 GMT
Like someone describing the attributes of their pet unicorn, very edifying I'm sure.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 12:07:41 GMT
Snowyflake says:
It is wrong to abuse an animal period and if you think sexual abuse of an animal is ok, then I truly worry for your mind, Tom.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 12:08:36 GMT
"The issue of child sexual abuse by Roman Catholic priests was first publicized in 1985 when a Louisiana priest pled guilty to 11 counts of molestation of boys."

There's 11 right there, from just one priest, and he's coughed to it, your abacus is faulty Tom.

"In early 2002 the Boston Globe covered the criminal prosecutions of five Roman Catholic priests in an article that won an uncontested Pulitzer Prize."

Another 5, that's 16, your figures are looking worse and worse, the question is, is it perfidy on your part, or is the church's attempt to tackle this problem woefully dishonest?

Lets take a closer look:

"BishopAccountability.org, an "online archive established by lay Catholics," reports that over 3,000 "civil lawsuits have been filed against the church" in the United States, some of these cases have resulted in multi-million dollar settlements with many claimants. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas paid $30.9 million in 1998 to twelve victims of one priest ($44.7 million in present-day terms). In July 2003 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Louisville paid $25.7 million to "settle child sexual-abuse allegations made in 240 lawsuits naming 34 priests and other church workers." In 2003, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston settled a large case for $85 million with 552 alleged victims.
In 2004, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange settled nearly 90 cases for $100 million.[17] In April 2007 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Portland in Oregon agreed to a $75 million settlement with 177 claimants and the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle agreed to a $48 million settlement with more than 160 victims.[18] In July 2007 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles reached a $660 million agreement with more than 500 alleged victims, in December 2006, the archdiocese had a settlement of 45 lawsuits for $60 million.[19][20] In September 2007, the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego reached a $198.1 million "agreement with 144 childhood sexual abuse victims."[21]
In July 2008 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Denver agreed "to pay $5.5 million to settle 18 claims of childhood sexual abuse."[22] The Associated Press estimated the total from settlements of sex abuse cases from 1950-2007 to be more than $2 billion.[20] BishopAccountability reports that figure reached more than $3 billion in 2012.[13][23] Addressing "a flood of abuse claims" five dioceses (Tucson, Arizona; Spokane, Washington; Portland, Oregon.; Davenport, Iowa, and San Diego) got bankruptcy protection.[20] Eight Catholic dioceses have declared bankruptcy due to sex abuse cases from 2004-2011.[24]
As it became clear that there was truth to many of the allegations and that there was a pattern of cover-ups in a number of large dioceses across the United States, the issue became a nationwide scandal, creating a crisis for the Catholic Church in the United States. Allegations in the United States also encouraged victims in other nations to come forward, rapidly creating a global crisis for the Church. Over many decades, priests and lay members of religious orders in the Roman Catholic Church had sexually abused children on a scale such that the accusations reached into the thousands.[25] A major aggravating factor was the actions of Catholic bishops to keep these crimes secret and to reassign the accused to other parishes in positions where they had continued unsupervised contact with youth."

You need a new calculator Tom

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 12:14:32 GMT
Four percent of priests serving over last 50 years accused of abuse

By Agostino Bono
Catholic News Service
WASHINGTON (CNS) -- About 4 percent of U.S. priests ministering from 1950 to 2002 were accused of sex abuse with a minor, according to the first comprehensive national study of the issue.

The study said that 4,392 clergymen-almost all priests-were accused of abusing 10,667 people, with 75 percent of the incidents taking place between 1960 and 1984.

During the same time frame there were 109,694 priests, it said.
Sex-abuse related costs totalled $573 million, with $219 million covered by insurance companies, said the study done by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

It noted, however, that the overall dollar figure is much higher than reported; 14 percent of the dioceses and religious communities did not provide financial data and the total did not include settlements made after 2002, such as the $85 million agreed to by the Boston Archdiocese.

The study, released in Washington Feb. 27, was commissioned by the U.S. bishops' National Review Board, which also released its own report at the same news conference on the causes of the clergy sex abuse crisis that has rocked the church for the past two years.

That doesn't quite tally with your appraisal of the situation Tom.

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 12:27:52 GMT
No it doesn't.

Tom is being dishonest, and wilfully.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 13:30:48 GMT
Kleist says:
'Tom M says:

Anita.. don't feed your cat without getting its assent first. Or if this confuses you , check with Mrs Shaw who thinks its wrong to do things to animals without their full and informed consent.'

She didn't say that. She said that one should not have sex with animals because they are incapable of adult rational consent. Just as the children that Catholic priests and others abuse are. I, like every decent person, believe that to have sex with a sentient being one morally requires that the being be capable of rational adult consent and give it. Don't you?

Children and animals are not capable of such consent. The same is not true of feeding them because feeding them is part of taking care of them. Now I know that these priests like to think that they are 'taking care' of the children that they rape but they are no, they are abusing them to gratify their twisted desires. Indeed I expect that their desires derive from the fact that their victims are incapable of rational consent.

Perhaps you think that because it is right to feed animals it is ok to have sex with them, I don't.

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 13:46:54 GMT
Withnail says:
Dear amazon, you decided to delete a post of mine. As far as I recall the main point I made was that it was wrong to abuse children. I am sorry that offended you, and the person(a) who complained about that post. As a matter of interest of there were numerous complaints have you considered checking to see if the complainants were linked?

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 13:48:51 GMT
Kleist says:
Ditto

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2014 13:51:23 GMT
Kleist says:
Hi Withnail,

Whenever you post in response to Tom keep a copy. When Amazon delete post it again. That's what I just did and it's still there.

Posted on 8 Mar 2014 15:58:32 GMT
Snowyflake says:
Who God is and who God is not......god is not real. What he is, is up to the interpretation of any person on the planet to suit whatever bias they personally hold against other human beings.

I base this on the evidence of a few posters on this forum. You know who you are.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  17
Total posts:  157
Initial post:  8 Mar 2014
Latest post:  26 Aug 2014

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