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Would the issue of Divorce and remarriage within the roman Catholic church be remedied if the Orthodox view of remarrige was adopted

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Showing 1-25 of 47 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 14 Apr 2014, 23:34:38 BST
The Catholic Church faces a dilemma concerning divorce and remarriage without annulment, many RC parishioners need a open door, maybe the Eastern Orthodox view of marriage could be adopted which would enable many RCs back into the fold. what do we think.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 10:24:41 BST
What is the Eastern Orthodox view of marriage?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 17:13:29 BST
Well Mr Burchell ty for your interest, now im not the World authority on this, but from what i have heard and been told and from what i read in Catholic literature, also as a Divorced Catholic, there is a problem surrounding Divorce in the RC Church, if a Catholic wishes to remarry in their Church they must get an Annulment which for many is far to traumatic to contemplate, so they become disenfranchised with the RC Church, they can be divorced and still take communion as long as they never remarry outside the Church.
The RC Church understands this problem and is keen to find an answer, as you can appreciate in these secular times the Church doesn't want to lose perfectly good Catholics, so the Bishops and the Holy father himself are exploring different avenues to allow Catholics to participate fully in their Church.
The difference between the RC Church and the Orthodox Church is that the RC Church is set up similar to a legal framework which treats Divorce and Annulment like a legal case looking for evidence to null and void the original marriage, this involves a communication between x partners which some don't wish to follow, unfortunately if they don't follow this procedure the Church like a court cant forgive the breakdown of the marriage. ( a more legal approach )
On the other hand the Orthodox Church is based on a forgiving system and realizes men and women s failings they believe in forgiveness and mercy and do try and guide people in difficult marriages, but do allow Divorcees to remarry again, i think they allow maybe two mistakes, then say enough, so Forgiveness actually accommodates the secular World we live in today and understands we all make mistakes.
The RC Church i believe are investigating this approach as it would allow many disenfranchised back into the fold, they are also looking at a system of self control and ones own conscience and making a decision yourself, i feel the Orthodox system would work well for genuine Catholics like myself.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 17:22:33 BST
My sister-in-law, a catholic, married a divorcee. The priest took a very aggressive line and she got married in a registry office. My mother-in-law simply stopped going to church and that must have caused problems because the local convent school and the church relied on my father-in-law (a non-catholic) for support in many ways. Eventually the priest came round to the house and asked why they were no longer supporting the church. My MiL simply looked at him and said 'Because the RCC is no longer supporting me'. My FiL suggested a compromise and said that he would resume his support for the church if the priest would give the marriage a blessing in the church. The priest said no. Stupid. It hurt the church to the tune of several £k a year and it showed.

Like just about everything else, the RCC will come round with too little too late.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 17:52:22 BST
I look forward to Tom M then telling us all on here how Catholicism led the way into a more enlightened approach to divorce.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 17:55:20 BST
Oh yes... I could do with a good laugh.

Posted on 15 Apr 2014, 18:02:30 BST
Hi Nestov,these are exactly the kind of problems the RC Church are facing due to their stand on Divorce and Annulments, they are starting to look at the issue very seriously and i believe there is a Synod of Bishops meeting this October 2014 and the issue is on the agenda, the Holy Father is a man who understands the secular World we live in and knows the Church cant afford to lose good people such as your Mother and Father in law, i read somewhere there is approximately about 4 million Divorced Catholics in the USA who have fell from grace due to the fact that there is a stand off when it comes to Divorce, these 4 million have for whatever reason not obtained an Annulment, so in theory the RC Church has lost or almost lost them.
so the RC Church is looking for a way to bring them back, i guess without losing face, but its not about losing face is it, its about doing the right thing for good people, i feel if they adopted the Orthodox stance of becoming a forgiving Church and looking after their flock in good times and bad as i think we would all agree God holds this attitude of forgiveness or so we are taught, the RC Church would really flourish, how does the saying go ,"let no man cast a stone who has sinned himself " we all make mistakes and if you think about it why not have the stance of answering before God each individually.
so im in favor of moving from a legal framework of marriage to a forgiving and self answering before God for our own mistakes, you will see the day i believe when people like your family wont have to go through this jumping through hoops to show they are decent Catholics.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 18:09:07 BST
Hi Dr Shedon, Im a Divorced Catholic and we are seeing the start of a change in attitude towards Divorced Catholics and Annulments, from the RC Church.
I believe the RC Church realizes the tide has changed and where once the population frowned upon Divorce and usually the female had to endure years of abuse in a bad marriage, the RC powers that be understand change is now necessary

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 18:21:46 BST
You have my sympathy of course, as an atheist I find such notions incomprehensible. A person has a right to decide for themselves if they wish to end a relationship, and should be allowed to do so without prejudice or persecution.

Posted on 15 Apr 2014, 18:23:34 BST
Norm Deplume says:
I don't quite understand why the RCC is so concerned about marriage and divorce. If marriage was important to the church then priests would be encouraged (or required) to marry(*). For a n organization that puts emphasis on forgiveness and repentance, it is not entirely consistent that members can remain in good standing after committing all sorts of crimes, but making in mistake in choosing a partner and they are out.

(*) though it may be too early to marry each other - an institution that has barely come to terms with the 18th century may take a mighty long time to reach the 21st.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 18:48:23 BST
You make a good point about marriage being seen as a graver offence compared to other crimes and still being accepted by the Church.
i think the problem is they tied marriage into a legal framework when they decided that the Annulment process had to be followed, this process puts the seeker of an Annulment into a court hearing scenario, now when we all think of Gods love and forgiveness we don't think of the laws of man and courts belief, Prayer spirituality is personal and before God, so they got the whole Divorce issue wrong and now they are trying to unravel themselves from the process of Annulment to become more God like in their forgivness.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 18:52:59 BST
Stu says:
Hi Andreas, like Sheldon I too am an atheist, but see no problem in talking to theists. I see the main problem that you face is getting a direct order to change the current laws that you have with regards annulments. If this were to come straight from the Vatican, then the churches could not argue could they? Where is the Synod of Bishops meeting being held if you do not mind me asking?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 19:03:50 BST
Well said Dr Sheldon, though a believer myself i respect your Atheist views and your quite right when you say it is an individuals choice to Divorce, id say so too, going further and being a believer id always say to marry in the eyes of God and to sanctify the marriage is more to my liking but maybe in the vows a sort of acknowledgement of the weakness of man.
This is why i believe like the Orthodox Church which is more forgiving and supportive when things go wrong the Church should be there for their people

Posted on 15 Apr 2014, 19:11:47 BST
Last edited by the author on 15 Apr 2014, 19:15:27 BST
Contrary to what the fundamentalists like to tell themselves, forcing parents to stay together in empty-shell marriages does no one any good. Not society, not the adults, and certainly not the children.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 19:21:29 BST
Hi Stu, i have np with Atheists lol they also believe their concepts strongly and defend their points well.
Your spot on with the over ruling of current laws regarding Annulments and this is why they are investigating alternative ideas mainly those of the Eastern Orthodox Church due to the fact that both Churches are Catholic, some say one in the same and hopefully will reunite, bearing this in mind and their combined history and faith you can see why its an option for the RC Church to do a U turn and adopt the 3 Strikes ( flippant remark sorry) and your out policy of marriage adopted by the Orthodox Church, this brings everyone back into the family.
The synod i believe is being held in Rome at the Vatican, i think even some of the Orthodox Patriarchs are invited too, so they are serious about it.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 19:23:04 BST
Very true Ryan and this is why Pope Francis is investigating marriage, hes a realist

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 19:50:39 BST
Stu says:
Hi Andreas, I'm glad it is all being held in Rome at the Vatican, because any decisions made can be authorised almost straight away by Pope Francis himself. He seems the type of pope that will improve the name of the RCC after what it has been through recently does he not? Let's hope he sticks to his word for your churches sake.

Posted on 15 Apr 2014, 20:22:21 BST
Good for him, though I don't believe any religious believer can ever be a realist by very definition.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:22:53 BST
To some degree the RCC don't really have an alternative, if you headed an organisation which was losing members faster and in more numbers each year due to an old regulation from another era what would you do.
It's a case of change or face extinction .

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:31:41 BST
Yes lol, by definition to be a realist is to not believe in that sense, that reminds me of an article about proving a negative, it was an Atheist article, I personally don't argue my faith to much with Atheists these days as to believe is my own personal mind set and there are something's in life I have found which don't fit neatly in a box lol.
Francis realises the situation rather more than most of the Church maybe.

Posted on 15 Apr 2014, 20:34:43 BST
Ian says:
Apparently it depends who you marry. A Catholic friend of mine was married and divorced, she was able to remarry in a Catholic church because he first husband wasn't a Catholic.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:49:23 BST
Well If I was an omniscient omnipotent deity I'd show myself unequivocally, and that might boost the attendances on Sunday?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:51:19 BST
Yes this is true as the RCC wouldn't of recognised her first marriage, this I feel is choosing what suits you and in this case it suited the RCC, but did she have to have any sort of annulment, sometimes if a catholic marries an Anglican there may be an Annulment but not sure, the church would probably just go on the fact they don't recognise a marriage to a non Catholic which is a nice little loophole for them ,as your friend still a Catholic entered into a union

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:51:54 BST
Hi Andreas,

well i'm an atheist but with an interest in religion. isn't there a bit of a problem here! Jesus drew a pretty hard line on divorce and although i see him as a man with his own take on Judaism Christians see him as divine and whereas a man might be said to be trapped in his own time and his view on divorce "an old regulation from another era" to today's thinking, as divine would his view not be just as valid today as it was then?

it's an assumption on my part but i had assumed the main reason for the RCC hard line on divorce was due to the position that Jesus took. if so then how can the church 'relax' it's attitude without the suggestion that Jesus' position was less than divine? it might well be a case of change or face extinction but then it might also be a slippery slope to chip away at fundamental positions that the church has taken for so long based on direct teachings of Jesus! surely the church should have faith in it's own dogma.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Apr 2014, 20:57:10 BST
What if they didn't like what they saw lol would you lose followers,though you would gain many Atheists.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  47
Initial post:  14 Apr 2014
Latest post:  1 May 2014

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