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Customer Discussions > religion discussion forum

God is the Greatest...Abortionist. Is that OK?


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Showing 1-25 of 43 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 25 Mar 2014 20:55:58 GMT
Henry James says:
Many many more abortions are caused by God after conception has happened (doesn't life begin at conception?). Eggs are fertilized, and then God decides to abort the fetus. Thousands of times more often than humans do (If anyone needs references, send God an email).
Is it OK because God does it, rather than man? Is God not subject to the same moral standards that humans are?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 21:35:35 GMT
That's precisely what theists do claim, that god is not bound by the morals he insists humans be bound to. Of course one has only to give the scenario a moments thought to see that a being with limitless power and knowledge should be more, not less, accountable for it's actions. Do we hold a a spider more accountable for killing it's kith and kin than we would a human? Or haul a Tiger into court for cold bloodedly killing a human?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 21:51:41 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 22:03:27 GMT
Stu says:
It's certainly high in the animal kingdom, and natural in the human kind, higher than which it is moral standard under abortion clinics or abortions in hospital, as you said Sheldon god is not accountable for his actions.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 22:09:52 GMT
Or the fact God is a primitive fiction?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 22:38:42 GMT
Last edited by the author on 25 Mar 2014 23:25:01 GMT
At the very least a being with limitless power allows it to happen. If of course this being with omnipotence also has omniscience, and created everything, then how is it logical to claim it's not culpable for what happens, when has the ability to stop it at will, and the knowledge that it will happen in advance?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 22:39:36 GMT
That would explain all the logical fallacies that theistic claims for their god produce.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 23:22:03 GMT
Henry James says:
Yep Doc
God is omniscient and omnipotent but he couldn't stop himself from "performing" these "natural" abortions. Stop me before I abort again.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Mar 2014 23:59:56 GMT
Tom M says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 00:01:05 GMT
Tom M says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 00:31:53 GMT
Henry James says:
Tom
It is obvious that you have not read Plato (you certainly have not understood him).
I suppose you would call him a "dumb theist" also (sic).
Do you realize how blinkered you are? (that is a rhetorical question).
I love you
Henry

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 06:29:00 GMT
Withnail says:
Things die therefore god exists- is that what you are saying?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 07:05:22 GMT
Is it a a fact? You will of course be able to prove this fact...

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 07:07:54 GMT
You really haven't learnt anything in the time you've been on this forum, have you? How do you expect theists to come around to your way of thinking when everything they say goes in one ear and out the other?

Look up Open Theism and read it through a few times. Perhaps then you might not reply in such a stupid way to my post.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 07:10:01 GMT
The way you phrase it God is there at the 'abortion', making it happen. Your concept of God's actions or even what it means to be omnipotent is heavily at fault.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 07:21:47 GMT
Withnail says:
Or you could produce something that shows god does exist. Imagine how ashamed we would all feel.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 08:32:36 GMT
Not a problem... see here

http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/religion/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx24A4CS3HPMJLK&cdThread=Tx2FVMHUNEAAZKS

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 08:34:58 GMT
Drew Jones says:
You're suggesting that omnipotence, properly understood realises that the figure doesn't have to be there or make anything happen in the way 'being there' and 'make something happen' are usually understood. Since these are more basic and common terms and omnipotence is speculative it would be sensible to be heavily at fault in your understanding of omnipotence rather than being there and doing something.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 08:35:55 GMT
Ah yes. Neo molinism at work. The issue of free will and evil that are difficult to reconcile with an omnipotent, omniscient and beneficent god.

They concluded that one of these needed to be weakened in order to make a reconciliation. The favoured one - mainly due to the obscurity of the argument was omniscience... the argument tries to show that god somehow cannot know the future so we get free will and absolve god from evil. It doesn't really hold up to detailed scrutiny but ten neither does the concept of god...

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:44:08 GMT
If I were making statements of fact that might be a good tactic, but since you are the one making such statements, you ought to be able to back it up with the evidence, otherwise it is just your belief, in which case one is quite justified in saying that atheism is just another belief system.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:45:17 GMT
You never did get around to commenting on my showing that your formulas end up proving the likelihood of God, perhaps you could do that now.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:49:01 GMT
Being powerful and using power and not the same thing - if an all powerful being is forced to use that power then they are not all-powerful. In other words God is at liberty to choose to use or not use power. He is also at liberty to give up some of that power to enable other beings to have (limited) power.

Oddly enough something similar happens to people every day. Your parents gave up some of their freedom when they had you. If you have children then you gave up some of your power to enable them to grow up and act of their own accord.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:51:55 GMT
Your beliefs are not a claim that your version of your god exists then? How does that work?

One has only to look up atheism in the dictionary to know it isn't a belief system, any more than not collecting stamps is a hobby. Nor does atheism require any beliefs, as can again be easily proved with the dictionary definition of the word.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:53:47 GMT
You never did read up on Open Theism did you? I should never have mentioned neo-molinism, particularly as it is a minority view within open theism.

I don't think that you have put much scrutiny into the whole issue of omniscience and how it relates to future knowledge. To my mind (and to an increasing number of theologians) it does make perfect sense and does hold up to scrutiny. The issue that most people have is not about 'knowledge' of the future, but whether the future actually has existence or not. That is a philosophical issue, whether the A-series or the B-series is the valid model of the time and the future.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Mar 2014 17:55:35 GMT
At this point in time my beliefs are irrelevant, I'm more interested in Ryan's and since you seem to be supporting him, yours. If atheism does not require any beliefs then you too ought to be able to provide evidence that there is no God.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  10
Total posts:  43
Initial post:  25 Mar 2014
Latest post:  26 Mar 2014

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