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The Trinity


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Showing 201-225 of 369 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 14:21:32 BDT
Archibald F says:
"Then it is not faith - see the dictionary definition." Circular argument. Trust me, people's faith grow and evolve.

"your religion is still stuck 2000 years in the past... it has not moved on when faced with more complex and greater amounts of information." No, the understanding of the church is also constantly evolving as it faces new challenges, such as slavery, women's rights, nuclear war.

" Those who are secure in themselves do not need faith" which is based on what?

"What is it about the world that scares you so much that you need faith" Why do you think I have faith because I am scared of something? Maybe it is that you associate faith with your own fears and insecurities?

"What is missing from your life that leaves you so incomplete that you have to fill a void with an imaginary friend? I do find this a real puzzle"
Now this, my friend, is where you start asking the correct questions! For me it was simply seeking truth. No fears, no insecurities. Just a desire to know what was true.

"" Ironically, the irony you saw was caused by completely misunderstanding what I was saying." So I actually got it right then... how ironic..." I'm sorry, I've no idea what you are getting at here - no doubt you will put that down to my inability to see irony as having a faith precludes me from this?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 15:11:44 BDT
No it is a statement of faith, because it assumes that there is no evidence to be found.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 15:15:24 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Since no evidence has ever been found , then the correct position is that there is no god, unless or until some evidence is presented to change that view.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 15:56:36 BDT
"I have yet to be presented any compelling evidence for god, therefore there is no reason to believe in him." This is a statement of faith - 'there is no reason' is either totally true, or probably true. If it is the former, then there should be some evidence to show why there is no reason, if it is probably true, then there is a chance that it is untrue (however small) and therefore faith (trust) is being expressed in its truth.

You seem to be jumping from 'yet to be presented' to making a conclusion based on uncertainty.

Faith IS involved in atheism.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 15:57:52 BDT
Now that is a statement of faith, if ever I heard one.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 15:59:35 BDT
Who has organised it?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:02:53 BDT
Last edited by the author on 30 Apr 2013 16:17:53 BDT
kraka says:
Clive says,Since no evidence has ever been found , then the correct position is that there is no god, unless or until some evidence is presented to change that view.

Clive There has never been any evidence to support ones assumptions that God does not exist and until there is your view is equally unsupported and unproven.

What a fascinating dillema when neither side can claim with absolute certainity what is the correct position.

Cheers my friend................................................kraka

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:05:52 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 30 Apr 2013 16:06:19 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:08:09 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Then you need to try thinking a bit. Maybe purchase a dictionary?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:09:41 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Kraka- no, totally wrong, unless you believe in every single god ever dreamed up by humanity? The belief position is untenable.

Do you believe in and pray to Viracocha?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:12:59 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
WDB - 'Faith IS involved in atheism.'

Faith requires that one lives one's life according to a particular object of faith, eg, I will go to heaven if I behave in a particular way to please god as written in the scriptures. As there is no evidence for god, there is no reason for faith. Why live a life of faith determined by an imagined probability? This is atheism, and I'm an atheist. If I was waiting for evidence of the existence of a god, I would be agnostic. Faith is involved in agnosticism.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:20:12 BDT
Norm Deplume says:
When theists want to denigrate atheism they try to make out that it is some form of religion or faith. What does that suggest about their attitudes to their own religions?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:26:39 BDT
kraka says:
Clive..No there has only ever been one True God all the rest have been man's inventions and have lacked His ability to reveal Divinity through direct Spiritual experience.

Cheers.................................................kraka

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:28:16 BDT
DB says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 16:33:54 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Kraka- please post the parameters which you use to decide Viracocha does not exist.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:29:27 BDT
Bellatori says:
You - "As for atheism I go for the Oxford Dictionary definition."
Now that's ironic!

You really do not have a grip on the nature of irony if you think pointing you to a definition of atheism is ironic.

All I can do is repeat what I wrote before and hope you read all the words and understand the point...

"As for atheism I go for the Oxford Dictionary definition. There is a subtle but important distinction from your definition.

atheism - disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Irony - The expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

" Ironically, the irony you saw was caused by completely misunderstanding what I was saying." So I actually got it right then... how ironic... "

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:32:43 BDT
Bellatori says:
No. it is a statement of fact BECUASE no religion has ever presented any evidence of God. As I have said before... the first religion that does find some real evidence is going to eat up all the others!!

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:34:29 BDT
Bellatori says:
"Now this, my friend, is where you start asking the correct questions! For me it was simply seeking truth. No fears, no insecurities." So you finally found an invisible friend to hold your hand and remove your fears and uncertainties... which is exactly the point I made...

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:41:16 BDT
Bellatori says:
Hi kraka

No it is not the same... claim that there is a God but no proof is provided means that the hypothesis fails and the nul hypothesis applies.

Were I to conjecture that Jesus had a birthmark on his right buttock in the shape of a flying dragon then it would be reasonable to ask on what basis I make this claim. Well, I just believe it to be true. I offer no evidence. Does that automatically mean that you have a 'belief' that this is not true. Not really you simply assume the nul hypothesis applies in the absence of evidence to the contrary which is to say that there is no evidence that Jesus had the birthmark...

Absence of a belief is not in itself a belief.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:43:54 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
Bella - can you try explaining that to Diane?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:47:37 BDT
Bellatori says:
Karen, I could try but what would be the point. I would rather try and teach a horse trigonometry.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:51:29 BDT
Norm Deplume says:
Diane,

I am not sure I understand your point.

I think what you are suggesting is:

You have spotted some connection between my post and evangelism.
Evangelism is a bad thing.

or,

You think my post is good news.

or,

Evangelism is a term associated with religion (specifically Christianity).
My post reminds you of it.
Evangelism might or might not be a bad thing.

Would you care to elaborate?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 17:51:33 BDT
Spin says:
Bellatori: "The absence of a belief is not itself a belief"? I agree but this means that atheism, defined by some atheists as a lack of belief in the existence of a deity, is not a belief. There are some on these threads who would disagree with that assertion.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 19:03:28 BDT
C. A. Small says:
He has, I have, you have, the daft old bat is impervious to knowledge.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Apr 2013 19:04:41 BDT
C. A. Small says:
I resent that implication- my horses and ponies are far brighter than Diane- but then so is the dung beetle.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  26
Total posts:  369
Initial post:  25 Apr 2013
Latest post:  8 May 2013

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