Shop now Shop now Shop now Cloud Drive Photos Shop now Learn More Shop now Shop now Shop Fire Shop Kindle Shop now Shop now
Customer Discussions > religion discussion forum

Why DO so many atheists pile (often aggressively) onto the religion forum?


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 176-200 of 1000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 12:29:01 BDT
Drew Jones says:
You could reasonably read that from it but not quite that we *need* a superfluous hypothesis.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 12:54:12 BDT
Kleist says:
No. If that is what 'God' is then we certainly don't 'need' it.

Posted on 31 Mar 2013 13:00:41 BDT
Kleist says:
Irena Sendler was a Polish Catholic social worker. During World War II, she was a member of the Polish Underground and the Zegota Polish anti-Holocaust resistance in Warsaw. She helped save 2,500 Jewish children from the Warsaw Ghetto by providing them with false documents and sheltering them in individual and group children's homes outside the ghetto.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:14:47 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Is this some sort of theistic top trumps?
Athanase Seromba (born 1963) is a Rwandan priest who was found guilty of aiding and abetting genocide and crimes against humanity committed in the Rwandan genocide.[1][2]
At the time of the genocide, Seromba was priest of a Catholic parish at Nyange in the Kibuye province of western Rwanda. He was charged with the deaths of around 2,000 Tutsis who took refuge in his parish church. According to the charges brought against him, Seromba ordered his church to be bulldozed on April 6 1994, and then shot some survivors.[1]
Seromba fled Rwanda in July 1994, and later moved to Italy and continued working as a priest for the Catholic Church near the city of Florence using the alias Anastasio Sumba Bura. Under pressure from Carla Del Ponte, the then Chief UN War Crimes Prosecutor, Seromba surrendered himself to the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) on February 6, 2002. On February 8, 2002 he pleaded not guilty to the charges of genocide, complicity in genocide, conspiracy to commit genocide and extermination as a crime against humanity. His trial began on September 20, 2004 before the Third Trial Chamber of the ICTR. On 13 December 2006, he was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years in prison.[3]
Seromba appealed the verdict. On 12 March 2008, the Appeals Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) decided his responsibility was even greater than previously found, affirmed his conviction, and increased his sentence to a life sentence.[4]
On 27 June 2009, Seromba was transferred to Benin. Seromba is serving his life sentence at Akpro-Missérété prison at Porto-Novo, Benin.[5]- from wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:19:32 BDT
Drew Jones says:
If? What else are gods other than claims masking ignorance, not advancing knowledge but instead easing the troubling discomfort of doubt and/or insignificance and side stepping the hard work that learning things properly requires.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:20:07 BDT
Last edited by the author on 31 Mar 2013 13:21:02 BDT
Bellatori says:
Shame about German bishop Alois Hudal then who helped get passports for the Germans doing the killings.

[EDIT] Hudal also arranged the paperwork for Franz Stangl, the commandent of the extermination camps of Sobibor and Treblinka, to flee to Brazil on a Red Cross passport using Vatican funds.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099282/How-Nazi-used-ratline-escape-route-flee-South-America-war-daughter-woman-seduced.html#ixzz2P7SWJusv

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:29:51 BDT
Kleist says:
No, my point was that one can be a catholic and be a decent human being (perhaps woefully too few). Just as one can be a catholic and a right bast**d. It is not because they are catholic that they are one or the other.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:35:14 BDT
Kleist says:
'claims masking ignorance' something that eases 'the troubling discomfort of doubt and/or insignificance' something that sidesteps 'the hard work that learning things properly requires.'

Is this the same as a hypothesis?

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:38:10 BDT
A customer says:
Hi Anthony,

So true people are people good comes from within, not from a concept or putting on different clothes. Im sure it does not matter what people believe for this aspect of humanity.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:39:18 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Anthony- I stated that very clearly ( or so I thought ) some time ago!

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:54:00 BDT
Last edited by the author on 31 Mar 2013 13:57:09 BDT
Drew Jones says:
Kind of, that's why I called it a hypothesis. It would be nice if it was treated as other serious/falsifiable hypothesis are.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 13:55:52 BDT
Kleist says:
Hi Mr Green,
I think that some would like to connect moral iniquity with belief in God, since this would have the result of discrediting such belief. It is a curious idea really, because IF there were a God and all of his believers were evil, THEN there would still be a God. (I emphasise the hypothetical because there are readers here who are rather literal minded). And the belief that 'there is a God' is usually what many of the atheist's who post here believe that 'belief in God' is supposed to amount to.

I think you are right, any bast**d can don a cassock or claim to be a Buddhist, but that doesn't make them either good or bad.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:02:11 BDT
Kleist says:
You certainly did. I didn't miss it, and I agreed entirely.

But you then went on to say that you 'loathe nazism, but really cannot see it is much difference from catholocism.' I was trying to underline the difference in case anyone might think that you were saying Catholics are Nazis. Which may well be the conclusion that people draw when someone says that they can't see the difference between two things i.e. that they are the same. (I know you said 'much' difference but I'm not sure that is really much help).

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:05:54 BDT
Last edited by the author on 31 Mar 2013 14:08:05 BDT
A customer says:
I agree certainly clothes don't make the man, and you are right on your point of the existence or non-existence of a greater being also. It would of course be irrelevant to such a being what we might think to exist.

I would hope if such a being exists that he/she/it would encourage free and rational thought, although I do get the impression that organised religion thinks the opposite.

Just T will do Anthony :-)

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:06:16 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Ok sorry - I misinterpreted.

No catholics are not necessarily nazis ( but obviously a lot were in Germany and beyond).

The comparison was between the way the ideologies affected those who were not included in them.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:10:24 BDT
Kleist says:
It would perhaps be nice, but I'm not sure that it would be what people generally mean by the term. I certainly don't think that the notion of God (and I have no religion) is some kind of hypothesis. If it were it would certainly be a very bad or crude hypothesis and the idea of faith would be wholly redundant, or at the least inappropriate.

But I feel like saying that this is a little like saying that dancing is a rather bad way of walking (I'm not sure how I would cash this analogy out; only the sense that one is not comparing the same kind of thing is implied. Not that science is prosaic and religion celebratory).

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:11:18 BDT
Drew Jones says:
The idea that morality is informed *because* there is a deity to arbitrate good and bad actions originates in theology and so by that belief improves behavior. The counter point shows the first premise to be invalid and so any logic following it unsound. Pointing out how morality doesn't effect existence is to move the goalposts and probably to point out what was already obvious.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:20:17 BDT
Drew Jones says:
"It would perhaps be nice, but I'm not sure that it would be what people generally mean by the term."
No it's not what they mean it to be but never the less wishing it to be more and acting like it's certain doesn't stop it being only ever a hypothesis.

"I certainly don't think that the notion of God (and I have no religion) is some kind of hypothesis."
Then what do *you* think it is? Seems odd to be unpresuaded by god claims yet not catorgorise it as a hypothesis.

"If it were it would certainly be a very bad or crude hypothesis and the idea of faith would be wholly redundant, or at the least inappropriate."
I call it a hypothesis and follow your conclusion from that.

"But I feel like saying that this is a little like saying that dancing is a rather bad way of walking (I'm not sure how I would cash this analogy..."
I'm not really interested in always talking in analogies because we are not comparing the same things. I'm making a straight comparison so that things can be as they are rather than have to lead ourselves back to the middle ground all the time.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:29:10 BDT
Kleist says:
It is certainly to point out what I think is implied by the rigid distinction between fact and value. A Universe in which there is no moral order written into its very fabric would be one wherein there is such a rigid distinction.

Thus a Godless Universe (if this is the same as one wherein there is no moral order woven into its fabric) is such that what is relevant to what furniture it contains is only what is factual, and what is of value to us or other beings who have values, irrelevant. Yet since the atheist believes the Universe to be such a valueless place in itself, then values have no place in their argumentation as to what does or does not exist.

If this is what you mean by saying I am making a point that is already obvious then I'm not sure why the language used in order to demonstrate the non-existence of God is so obviously value-laden.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:36:03 BDT
Spin says:
Anthony: All languages, signs, representations et al are "value laden". Without "value" language would have no meaning or purpose. The conflict lies only in the debate as to what is of value, not what is valued.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:39:24 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 31 Mar 2013 15:05:53 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:41:58 BDT
Drew Jones says:
"If this is what you mean by saying I am making a point that is already obvious then I'm not sure why the language used in order to demonstrate the non-existence of God is so obviously value-laden."
Maybe because it isn't directly about the existence of god but the origin of morals and the ability of belief in a god to improve or exclude social behavior and values.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:42:51 BDT
Kleist says:
I agree entirely Spin.
But there are, I think, those who believe that we can step out of our values and language and somehow commune with the facts unadulterated by interpretation.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:46:59 BDT
Kleist says:
I don't know anybody who believes that the belief that God, or gods, exists thereby improves morals or values. Indeed unless we have some sense of what more is required, or what follows, given that belief, it is hard to see how it even makes sense. As to the origins of value this remains a profoundly complex question even if one believes in God.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Mar 2013 14:47:08 BDT
Spin says:
Athony: Indeed. The "revelation", the "awareness", is itself "God". Or so it is said. Perhaps such an awareness does not lead to a conclusion of the reality of deity, but leads to a conclusion based on humanitarian ideals. How does one distinguish Gods intervention in human thought from a purely human, reasoned understanding?
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


Recent discussions in the religion discussion forum

  Discussion Replies Latest Post
Announcement
Important Announcement from Amazon
158 3 days ago
Why did it take precisely 7 days, not more or less, for Jahwah,God or Allah to create the universe? 71 1 hour ago
Gay habits and God. Smokers and the devil. 338 5 hours ago
The Virgin Mary. Mother of a God. the Epitome of Female purity and devotion to the Male 9 5 hours ago
How do Christians decide which rules in the bible should be obeyed? 117 5 hours ago
Why is this Forum so full of.... 13 5 hours ago
Book (Snapping of the American Mind) shows Harvard tests showing parental neglect causes homosexuality 916 9 hours ago
Why are atheists without theism, which is to say why are atheists, atheists? 56 11 hours ago
God, Jesus and Skynet. 0 11 hours ago
if you don't like and don't believe in religion nobody says you are religiousphobic. So where did the liberal myth of Islamaphobia come from. 12 20 hours ago
The Power of Prayer. 2056 23 hours ago
A Syrian refugee with a criminal past and a history of assaults in Germany has today killed a woman with a machete. Come here, come to us said Merkel. She MUST STAND DOWN NOW. 29 1 day ago

More Customer Discussions

Most active community forums
Most active product forums

Amazon forums
 

This discussion

Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  63
Total posts:  1425
Initial post:  28 Mar 2013
Latest post:  9 May 2013

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 2 customers

Search Customer Discussions