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What caused the big bang?


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Showing 101-125 of 155 posts in this discussion
Posted on 29 May 2013, 18:46:55 BST
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Posted on 29 May 2013, 18:49:43 BST
With sub-contracting work done by the Easter Bunny.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 18:49:51 BST
##### says:
It was rather clumsy of him/them not to include any mention of it in biblical genesis.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:16:17 BST
Last edited by the author on 29 May 2013, 19:17:24 BST
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:32:29 BST
##### says:
And?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:42:01 BST
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:53:47 BST
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:54:42 BST
##### says:
Who mentioned what in genesis?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:55:39 BST
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:56:15 BST
##### says:
Your point?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013, 19:56:58 BST
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 May 2013, 00:16:23 BST
Anita - "After the Big Crunch we are not supposed to be here anymore, and for now at least some of us still are :) "

Right, in spite of the gnomes! ;=)

Posted on 30 May 2013, 23:53:16 BST
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 02:15:05 BST
Spin - " I feel that the "scientific" view (and I use the term loosely) is too materialistic and"spatio-temporal" and lacks the curiosity needed to discern the truth."

Elaborating a little on your comment, science is largely dependant on the notion of "causality", itself dependant on "temporality", which involves "spaciality".
The notion of "empirical evidence" involves physical observation through the senses and the processing (interpretation) of the data thus obtained through the mind, all of this implying a "space-time" dimension.
Since the Big Bang and the Big Crunch occur, theoretically, "outside" or independently of any such space-time dimension, how can any relevant empirical evidence be adduced?
Are the Big Bang and the Big Crunch, then, not just as theoretical, speculative and "metaphysical" as the existence of God?

Posted on 31 May 2013, 16:08:44 BST
Big crunch? Impossible - the universe is infinite and galaxies are moving further apart due to dark energy (a force which can become more powerful than gravity over a certian distance which as of yet we are unable to pinpoint.)

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:15:20 BST
Anita says:
Popcorn - it's *one* of possible outcomes. Your version is just another one

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:17:56 BST
G. Heron says:
Anita

"Popcorn - it's *one* of possible outcomes. Your version is just another one "

True but on current data it is the least likely.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:20:25 BST
NASA have already established that the universe is infinite. So intheory, that would mean the 'crunch' is impossible? That is scientifically correct isn't it?

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:26:29 BST
Bellatori says:
"NASA have already established that the universe is infinite." Do you have a reference for that... it seems terribly unlikely to me. The Universe is approximately 14 billion years old and if we cannot exceed the speed of light then it cannot be infinite in size. The only reasonable thing I can think of is that the fields of the universe could be infinite in extent but not the physical universe itself.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:28:09 BST
Henry James says:
Scientists at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (FNAL) told reporters the universe may not be infinite after all.

Joseph Lykken, a theoretical physicist with FNAL in Batavia, Illinois, spoke to reporters at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) meeting in Boston, saying recent calculations show its "bad news" for the future of the universe.

"It may be that the universe we live in is inherently unstable and at some point billions of years from now it's all going to get wiped out," Lykken, who is also on the science team at Europe's Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, told Reuters.

from
http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112787040/universe-not-infinite-after-all-021913/

Posted on 31 May 2013, 16:32:41 BST
Anita says:
Well, yes, if the universe *is* infinite, if all the galaxies eventually move beyond any visibility from each other (et cetera) I suppose that makes Big Crunch impossible. However I'm a bit suspicious about "established". Nothing can be really "established" about things like that, I think. There can always be new data found. No one has "established" the cosmological constanta yet. There's yet a lot left for our children and grandchildren to find :)

Posted on 31 May 2013, 16:34:25 BST
Anita says:
Doh, I've been a slow typer, as always. Jo's and Henry's posts came while I *was* typing, so posted without reading those

In reply to an earlier post on 31 May 2013, 16:45:03 BST
Bellatori says:
Hi Anita...
"No one has "established" the cosmological constanta yet." It can only have three significant values >0;=0;<0 (I cannot remember whether it is zero of a constant but that really is not important) and this generates 3 possibilties viz. It expands forever, it crunches, it reaches a (meta) stable state. However whichever one it is the physical size cannot be infinite as far as I can see. It has only existed for a limited time and has measurable rate of expansion so how can it be. Maybe they were talking about the final state of he Universe or, as I guessed, the size of the fields that the universe exists in. I will have to do some research.

Posted on 31 May 2013, 16:49:22 BST
Bellatori says:
OK... Panic over... they were talking about the end of the Universe... it may not go on for ever getting bigger and bigger (assumption about the cosmological constant for a start) but may get consumed any moment by the eruption of a new universe that will swallow ours up... bukker that... I have just done a big shop at Tesco.!

Posted on 31 May 2013, 17:03:09 BST
Most scientists accept the idea that the universe has no "end". This is possible only if the universe is infinite OR if the universe is closed onto itself in higher dimensions.

For example, Earth's surface (if you look at it as a 2-dimensional object) has no end. You can start off in any direction and go on forever without reaching an "end". However, if you do, you would pass over your starting poing over and over again.

That is because Earth's surface is closed onto itself around a third dimension. This also means that the Earth's surface must have what geometers call "positive curvature". One way to test for positive curvature (without having to go all the way around) is add up the inner angles of a triangle.

On Earth's surface, if you make a large enough triangle, the sum of the inner angles will be greater than 180 degrees. On a flat surface, the sum must be EXACTLY 180 degrees.

Start from the North pole, and go straight south for 10,000 km. You are now at the equator. Turn right, 90 degrees, you are now facing the equator. Go straight along the equator for 10,000 km. Turn right again, 90 degrees. You are now facing north. Go north 10,000 km and you are back at the pole, making a 90 degree angle with the original line.
A triangle with three 90-degree angles. Total = 270.
This principle is valid in any number of dimensions.

The same kind of test was performed using the space probe WMAP. It tried to measure the geometric curvature of space to see if it was positive (universe closed around higher dimensions) or negative (hyperbolic universe).

As far as we can tell, our universe is geometrically "flat". This does not prove that the universe is infinite, but an infinite universe is the easiest way to explain "flatness".

OK - so it remains a theory but most likely. The only reason (IMO) why it isn't accepted as fact is people's innability to understand infinity.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  22
Total posts:  155
Initial post:  25 May 2013
Latest post:  1 Jun 2013

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