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Was a person called Jesus, ever really crucified?


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Showing 951-975 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Posted on 19 May 2012, 15:00:30 BST
i think jesus was a man made into a crist. any man! who spoke up the romans put down.they kept records of this oll over there empire.. at his time it was to be crucifid for all to see....

Posted on 19 May 2012, 14:57:48 BST
i think jesus was a man made into a crist. any man! who spoke up the romans put down.they kept records of this oll over there empire.. at his time it was to be crucifid for all to see....

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 14:08:42 BST
Pipkin says:
RED
Well there we have it!
''The son of man was 3 days and night in the earth as the scriptures state.''
NO he was not....in the earth, for a start.
He was hung Friday afternoon, and removed by Nicodemus and Joseph after three hours having fainted and slipped into a coma. He was then taken to the sepulchre of Joseph of Aramathea where he was ministered to and revived. He rested there Saturday, then came out on the Sunday and met his Wife Mary Magdeline; visited his freinds; then escaped with his wife's Uncle Joseph and travelled eventually to Europe. That was two nights and one day in my reconning?

As you admit yourself, Ceasar amended the 'kalender.' So that makes that OK then? And all the christian festivals supposedly attributed to the life of Jesus were in fact Pagan in origin; but as you say you and your ilk have no problem/qualms about using Pagan days, dedicated to NON EXISTANT deities, if their purpose is to 'ease' the way for people to accept Jesus as lord, becasue the Church realised that in the fullness of time the ''OLD GODS'' would be forgotten as their adherants died out or converted.....
Many Churches in England are on ground that had been Pagan....to facilitate the bringing of Pagans into the NEW FAITH...

Nothing more to say really!!!!!
Make it up as you go along....

People were worshipping GOD way before your type got hold of the idea and twisted it to fit your own particular predelection, then used it to brainwash and control the masses and keep them in fear and confusion...
Incidentally I was brought up a Catholic until I was 20, then slowly over the last 45 years, my eyes have been opened by reading and experience.
Catholic Church = Anti Christ!!!!

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 13:26:29 BST
C. A. Small says:
Roger the first and only time ( I suspect) I agree with you.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:37:07 BST
Ok, to keep you happy I'll put in the commas.

watching those, who had more class in their little toe than you could ever attain, being murdered.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:14:47 BST
RED - "watching those who had more class in their little toe than you could ever attain being murdered."

Wow! That's interesting! I never knew you could get class in your little toe by being murdered!

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:10:40 BST
You can imagine what you like, but that doesn't mean that you're right or that you know about me.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:10:11 BST
Sam H. - "Wayne would seem to disagree with you and place some of the failure with God."

I have a book called "The God that Failed". Curiously it is not about the God of the Jews and the Christians!

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:09:39 BST
No, that's a photo of a book with a cover that has a photo of a painting. It's not a photo of the person.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 08:00:30 BST
I imagine you're a republican, one of these ghastly plebs who would have sat around during the French Revolution watching those who had more class in their little toe than you could ever attain being murdered.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 07:57:47 BST
Being a smarta..e becomes no one. I know, as well as anyone should,that film cameras weren't invented then, hence court artists such as HOLBEIN who made their livings doing portraits of the aristocracy.

I can say I have a photo of Richard III, a king of whom I have studied much, for I owned a book on him that had on the cover a reproduction of the NPG portrait of the King. I photographed the book cover with my camera on a tripod and then had the negative done as a photo. Is that not technically a photo of Richard? It's not a photo of anyone else.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 07:23:49 BST
The shroud was an early example of putting a celebrity's face on a T-shirt.

There were probably t-shirts on sale at Chuck the First's execution; a photo of the King with the slogan underneath: "Royalists always give head!"

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 07:03:11 BST
Sam H. - "You have a photograph of Charles I, King of England, King of Scotland, King of Ireland, who was executed in 1649?"

So maybe the Shroud really is a photograph after all!!!

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 06:47:15 BST
You have a photograph of Charles I, King of England, King of Scotland, King of Ireland, who was executed in 1649?

A photograph... really?

Please post a scan of it somewhere and give us the link. I'm fascinated.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 06:40:03 BST
While I've asked for further clarification, Wayne would seem to disagree with you and place some of the failure with God.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 06:06:36 BST
RED - "Were He still alive that would have been noted by the soldiers supervising the executions and they would then have proceeded with the coup de gras [sic] ."

As has already been pointed out in this thread, even in relatively modern times (before the criterion of brain death), there is evidence that even experienced medical practitioners have rather frequently certified death in error, horrifyingly leading to burial alive in a surprising number of cases.
The Roman soldiers were not experienced medical practitioners, but the Therapeut and Essene elders were among the most knowledgeable physicians of their times, and Joseph and Nicodemus are thought by a number of people to have come from among their ranks.

This possibility does have rather serious consequences for the Orthodox doctrines of the resurrection and ascension, and so it will meet with fierce resistance from this sector, although it has already been quite widely divulged.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 05:30:34 BST
"Send reinforcements, we are going to advance"
"Send three and fourpence, we are going to a dance"
We've played Chinese Whispers and seen how a message can be corrupted when transmitted between ten people all speaking the same language - the possibilities for error compound somewhat when you're dealing with multiple languages.

Among others I have the King James Bible { 1611 } on my shelves and for years that was the acknowledged version for Protestants. In 1952 however, due to discoveries of ancient documents and needing to 'upgrade' Stewart English meaning, the revised Standard Version was published.

Our Bible { Biblos, a book } has come out of Aramaic that then went to Greek thence to Latin to English. I have also read of the apparent mistake with the rope and the needle, with two almost the same Greek words, one being camel and the other rope. Thus the saying became corrupted from rope - that makes sense - to camel, that doesn't. Some say it refers to a Jerusalem gate called The Eye of The Needle but I should imagine a camel could fit through it if that's the actual meaning.

"In the Greek version of Joseph's request to Pilate, Joseph uses the word for "body" while Pilate speaks of a "corpse". I have read of what was described as toma and stoma - I believe it's grammar error and do not accept that my Lord and Saviour did not actually die on that cross for me. OT prophecy said that The Messiah's bones would not be broken and the solders detailed to break the legs of the crucified as an act of mercy and to hasten death were surprised to see Jesus was ALREADY DEAD.

Were He still alive that would have been noted by the soldiers supervising the executions and they would then have proceeded with the coup de gras.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 03:18:28 BST
RED - ["taken down and washed and healed" Healed Mrs Cannally? He was dead so how could He have been healed? He was taken down from the cross and ritually prepared for Jewish burial in a donated tomb that was not intended for Him originally.]

As I have pointed out before,
a) Joseph obtained immediate admittance to Pilate, and so must have been an important known friend. In the Greek version of Joseph's request to Pilate, Joseph uses the word for "body" while Pilate speaks of a "corpse".
b) 3-4 hours was such an unusually short time for a crucified man to die that the observers were surprised.
c) When His side was lanced, blood and water "flowed" rather than oozed, suggesting (low) arterial pressure.
d) The centurion in charge showed sympathy: he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!"
e) He was taken down from the cross by the MEN, and pious Jewish men would not handle a corpse, a job for the women, especially on the eve of an important religious festival.
f) He was wrapped in costly new (aseptic) linen with a generous quantity of a very costly balm of myrrh and aloes, known for its curative rather than preservative properties (Jesus balm).
g) Only on the third day, after the Sabbath, did the women come to the tomb to wash and embalm the body, something they would not have done if they knew it had already been done before the Sabbath. His body was no longer in the tomb and the rock had been rolled away from the entrance.

What may we conclude from these details?

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:25:51 BST
Last edited by the author on 19 May 2012, 06:08:56 BST
Pendragon - "Sion Revelation - very interesting book, very readable."

Do you have any ideas on "Blue apples at mid-day"? I have a very simple explanation, if you're interested.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:24:35 BST
"Cromwellian Puritans, the purest of Christians"

As a monarchist who has a photo of the martyred Charles I in my home and being as I am a traditionalist Latin Mass believer you're really turning my stomach. Had I been around in 1660 I would have exaulted to see HARRISON, COOKE and the other regicides given their due punishment for Treason: hanged, drawn and quartered.

As for the 'Lord Protector' were he on fire I would not relieve my bladder to extinguish the flames. Every September 3rd { 1658 } I pray the bastard will roast in hellfire.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:16:16 BST
gtL - "bloody regicidal republican blood-thirsty deluded hypocritical double-minded ... "

This kind of abuse is characteristically UNCHRISTIAN!
And the missing capitals and punctuation are characteristically LAZY or ILLITERATE!

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:16:11 BST
Last edited by the author on 19 May 2012, 02:16:43 BST
The prepuce has a purpose.

In my opinion infant circumcision fits within the parameters of the law relating to Grievious Bodily Harm, aka GBH. The essential definition is any inflicted injury permanently effecting health and comfort. Hacking of a male infant's foreskin, thus subjecting him intense pain when he urinates, is barbaric.

I would like to see the practice made criminal under law and children have the option of suing their parents for GBH.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:08:17 BST
Harry W. - "Think about it. Why would radical Cromwellian Puritans, the purest of Christians go about burning witches?"

Why would the Roman legionaries (few of whom could have been secret Christians) go about exterminating Druids and followers of the Mother Goddess?
Think about it,

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 02:01:57 BST
Sam H. - "So you're saying that God's actions in the Old Testament are there to be seen as failures?"

I think it is important to distinguish between God's actions and man's actions, which are very often not in accordance with the will of God. You, as an atheist, are very aware that the "will of God" is highly subject to misinterpretation, mostly being superimposed by the will of man. The failures should be seen as those of man, rather than of God.
Naturally, you will rebut this as sidestepping the issue, but what else can I say?

In reply to an earlier post on 19 May 2012, 01:49:30 BST
Harry W. - "This God you believe in, made a covenant with his beloved creation, which involved hacking off a bit of your genitalia with a some flint. "

A somewhat inessential part, often removed simply as a medical protection against infection, especially amongst desert nomads. But we've been over all this before!
Would you object to a standard medical practice of removal of the appendix shortly after birth, since it so often causes critical and even fatal problems, or do you think it is better to leave us "as God made us"? Should there not be a law against "mutilation" with tattoos and piercings? etc.
Apparently the word Brythons derives from the Celtic, meaning "Painted people", just as Picts derives from the Latin of the same meaning. Tattoos seem to be part of our cultural identity, just as circumcision is for the Jews and Muslims. Even in a globalised world, tribalism prevails.
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