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Dance Veteran says, 'Muslims from Britain choosing to engage in carnage in the middle east'


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Showing 1-20 of 20 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 22 Jun 2014, 19:38:21 BST
Shrek says:
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Posted on 22 Jun 2014, 20:41:19 BST
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Posted on 22 Jun 2014, 20:46:39 BST
Chris says:
Better there than here.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Jun 2014, 21:14:13 BST
"Better there than here." ?

Conveniently forgetting the 7 July 2005 London Underground bombings? MI5 now seems to think it will be happening here soon; so where does that leave the British Establishment's dreams of a multi-racial/cultural 'paradise'?

Relevant articles:-

British Syria-radicalized jihadists biggest threat to UK national ...
http://rt.com/news/returning-british-syria-fighters-804/
11 Apr 2014 ... Radicalized UK citizens returning from Syria are the biggest threat to ... An assessment by the MI5 spells out how alluring Syria has become to UK jihadists. ... Concerns over the grave threat have been confirmed to the ...

BBC News - MI5 chief Andrew Parker warns of Islamist threat to UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24454596
9 Oct 2013 ... This has long been a concern of Western governments - that British-based jihadists will one day return from the killing fields of Syria and turn ...

Hundreds of British jihadists in Syria - Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...ish-jihadists-in-Syria.htm
3 Dec 2013 ... ... with jihadist groups in Syria, raising concern that they will return trained in ... Last month Andrew Parker, the head of MI5, told a parliamentary ...

British failure. There are over 500 Jihadist Brits from the UK fighting ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Df4eMIO4aED0
1 day ago ... As many as 500 British Muslims have gone to Iraq to fight with the extreme ... The British citizens left the UK and joined rebel fighters in... ... MI5 worried ... He said: ' It's estimated that one in nine jihadists return home from jihad ...

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Jun 2014, 21:33:27 BST
Last edited by the author on 22 Jun 2014, 21:42:29 BST
Shrek says:
To Muslims from Britain choosing to engage in carnage in the Middle East. For example, Cameron's reaction was to say that Shopkeepers on the English south coast are threatened by Ukey Jihadists returning to Blighty with orders from their Isis commanders to blow health food shops in particular to bits - even though figures from the National Statistical Office show there is a greater risk of being mown down by a pack of demented lycra clad cyclists on the C7 than being beheaded in your health food shop by an Isis trained Jihadist.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Jun 2014, 21:37:21 BST
Shrek says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 22 Jun 2014, 21:43:53 BST
TomC says:
Now that he has disclosed that he has a large quantity of cash at home - and even told everyone where he keeps it - both of those risks would be vastly outweighed by the likelihood of being struck on the head by a burglar armed with a heavy blunt object.

Let's hope those lightning reflexes developed during SEAL training are regularly kept honed to a razor sharp edge.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 05:58:46 BST
Chris says:
As usual, you miss the point in your rush to produce a long and rambling post.

These guys could start a fight in an empty room - I would rather thry congregate in the desert (with some luck having something large and explosive dropped on them) and work out their silly hatred there, than we see them do it again here.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 09:49:02 BST
Last edited by the author on 23 Jun 2014, 10:25:05 BST
Chris says:- "These guys could start a fight in an empty room " ???

I find such a meaningless statement utterly facile, but all too typical of those currently in the grip of the West's Media generated blindness and war fever.

A few simple/impartial questions

1. Did Western armies attack Iraq on trumped up charges of Iraq possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction?
2. Has the West been systematically pepper-bombing Islamic cities from Tripoli (through Bagdad and Basra) to the hill villages of Afghanistan?
3. Has this unopposed aerial bombardment inflicted hundreds of thousands of casualties upon a defenceless civilian population?

Open question to those who would load the responsibility for this needless conflict away from the guilty men in Washington and Whitehall:-

When did you ever feel 'threatened' by Saddam Hussein?

Media articles such as the one below are currently demonizing young Islamic lads for volunteering to fight for the freedom/liberties and traditional culture of their people. Well I've a different opinion on this. As a young man I joined the British Army myself, IE: volunteered to fight (die if need be) for the people/culture that I was born into and loved. How can any of you consider such behaviour wrong/dishonourable in any way?

I'm an old man now, enjoying a comfortable retirement in a currently peaceful UK; but if I were an elderly Muslim in Syria/Iraq or elsewhere, trying desperately to protect his family/grandchildren from the potentially fatal results of this most recent Western aggression, I'd rejoice from the bottom of my heart to see gallant young warriors in their thousands flocking to the field of battle, intent on protecting everything I hold dear, Quote below drawn from:-

Syria: Young 'Gangsters' Flock to Fight and Die in British Brigade of ...
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-young-gan...h-brigade-jihadists-145130
5 Jun 2014 ... Syria: Young 'Gangsters' Flock to Fight and Die in British Brigade of ... Rayat al- Tawheed: Islamist Group Recruits Brits For Jihad in Syria.

"Where are you when we need to start taking heads off? Where are you when they are slaughtering our children and our fathers?" the man says in flawless English with a strong London accent."

PS.

If David Cameron seriously wants to calm the situation (both in the Middle East and here in UK) the answers simple. Stop bombing Islamic cities and tell his mate Obama to do the same.

Posted on 23 Jun 2014, 09:49:16 BST
Indeed, this ISIL group has taken everyone by surprise. Once their opponents get into gear there may not be much of them coming back.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 10:44:40 BST
Defenceman says:
CWB,

'If David Cameron seriously wants to calm the situation (both in the Middle East and here in UK) the answers simple. Stop bombing Islamic cities and tell his mate Obama to do the same.'

Which cities exactly is it that he's currently bonbing? We have no military in Iraq, involvement in Libya is long over, we took no action over Syria, and we are about to leave Afghanistan. The UK's involvement in all these countries is at an end, and in the case of Syria never started, so I don't quite see what your comment actually means.

It seems to me that we have a curious conundrum with Syria. On the one hand British people are going there to fight and it is assumed will come back to use the skills gained on the streets of the UK, whilst at the same time the UK is taking no part whatsoever in what is happening there. On the other hand, there are plenty of people arguing that the UK should be intervening. So which is the right course of action?

Add to this the simple fact in Iraq, that the fighting is essentially between two different sets of muslims, not between muslims and some other group or faith, and it seems to me to be blatently obvious that this fight is not of our making. We may have helped create the conditions in which this is happening by the invasion of Iraq, but our intervention didn't give the green light for any of these muslim groups to start fighting with each other. That was their decision. They were perfectly capable of reaching a political accommodation with each other, but chose not to, despite the obvious dangers.

All of which means that you can't do right for doing wrong. Meaning, as Chris says its up to them and their supporters to work out their own mutual hatreds amongst themselves in the desert. As far as the British ones are concerned, I guess many of them won't survive the experience, so MI5 won't need to monitor them afterwards. And for the rest, I expect that there will be some very obvious surveillance applied to them on their return. That may be enough to determine who is a threat and who isn't going into the future.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 11:01:34 BST
Last edited by the author on 23 Jun 2014, 11:02:56 BST
Chris says:
CW, you appear to know little of the history of Sunni / Shia differences and how these translate to the current situation - you are fond of Wikipedia, and that may help you there.

For the record, I believe that the invasion of Iraq was wrong and the leaders of the time should be held accountable (Afganistan is a different matter). What that invasion did, was remove the dictator who was holding back the historic Sunni / Shia tribal conflict - remove him, and fail to replace with a better alternative and that conflict was bound to resurface. The West is guilty of doing or attempting to do the same in Syria & Libya.

Where I do agree with you CW, is that we should keep out of it.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 13:03:58 BST
Last edited by the author on 23 Jun 2014, 13:06:37 BST
Chris says:- "CW, you appear to know little of the history of Sunni / Shia differences"

I'll not claim to be an expert on the subject, but I posted the short summary below a few days ago. Suggest you read it? There are lessons from that deep rooted historical tragedy that our current finance obsessed 'leadership' would do well to learn.

Quote:-

Concerning the rivalry between Sunnis and Shia versions of the Islamic faith:-

1. Yes they do play a very similar role to the Protestant v Catholic schism within Christianity.
2. Yes this division is rooted in far older/deeper (but popularly unmentioned) hatreds than merely 'a difference in opinion as to who rightfully succeeded the Prophet'.

Although (to Western eyes) the inhabitants of the Islamic/Middle Eastern World all look very similar today? historically there's a 'racial' divide as deep as any seen in modern Europe or the Americas. A mutually entrenched hatred that reaches back almost to the dawn of civilisation.

You may/may not be aware of this? but in the very ancient past the white/Aryan racial family dominated far more of the Euro/Asian land mass than it does today; controlling all the territory from India/Afghan Mountains in the East to the Atlantic Coast in the West. The Middle East/Palestine was an exception to this, being controlled NOT by Aryans but by Semitic tribes. Even today Palestine being known by a time-corrupted version of the name of it's original (Semitic ) Philistine occupiers.

Persian Empire
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Persian Empire is any of a series of imperial dynasties centred in Persia (now Iran), with boundaries that ebbed and flowed from that core. The first of these was established over 2,500 years ago, in 550 BCE, but the existence of dynastic rule centred in the region was absent for an 850 year period, from 651 CE until 1501 CE.

Wikipedia: Persian Empire
Dynasties that have been counted as instances of the Persian Empire include:
Achaemenid Empire (550-330 BCE), also called "First Persian Empire"
Parthian Empire (247 BCE-224 CE), also called "Arsacid Empire"
Sasanian Empire (224-651 CE), also called "Neo-Persian Empire" and "Second Persian Empire"
History of Iran under: Safavid dynasty (1501-1736 CE)
Afsharid dynasty (1736-1796 CE)
Zand dynasty (1750-1794 CE)
Qajar dynasty (1785-1925 CE)
Pahlavi dynasty (1925-1979 CE)

Historically however, these ancient Semites suffered repeated invasion/conquest and exploitation by the chariot (and later cavalry) armies of their Aryan neighbours, who were the first peoples known to have domesticated the horse. These ancient Aryan horsewarriors created the first 'Great Power' of recorded history, now remembered as the 'Persian' Empire. These first 'sons of Perseus' were racially little different from Northern Europeans/Scandinavians today, being tall, strongly built blond haired, blue eyed and bearded; while their Semitic victims were smaller, less physically robust, dark-haired and swarthy/olive skinned.

Then as now, inter-tribal/racial warfare was as common; but with whole tribes/nations being conquered and deported as slave labour. Over centuries/millennia this economically driven movement of peoples led inevitably to integration and racial intermixing, with the blond haired 'Sons of Perseus' gradually becoming indistinguishable from their darker neighbours in either India to the East or Palestine/North Africa to the West; but those tribal/racial hatreds endured, passed down in the histories of the various peoples involved; as Biblical texts such as the one below make crystal clear:-

1 By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
2 There on the poplars
we hung our harps,
3 for there our captors asked us for songs,
our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
they said, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"
4 How can we sing the songs of the Lord
while in a foreign land?
5 If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill.
6 May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.
7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
"Tear it down," they cried,
"tear it down to its foundations!"
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks. - Psalm 137.

It was this racial/cultural resentment that underlay the fall/overthrow of several of the Persian Dynasties mentioned above, and also the seeming cruelty of the Arabia/Eastern slave trade, who (over hundreds of years) invariably sterilised their African slaves, thus ensuring that no further racial/cultural group could develop/grow up amongst them.

In 610AD Mohammad first raised his banner and began preaching the Islamic faith amongst the Arabian (Semitic) tribes. Following a series of 'minor' campaigns to unite/ensure his control of the homeland, his first meaningful target was Persia (known even today as Iran, IE: land of the Aryan's). His campaign was ruthlessly successful partly due to the degenerate condition of his rivals at that time. The defeated Persian military/religious 'elite' was eradicated and the Aryan/Persian population rapidly converted to Islam en-masse BUT (as in Ireland) the age old tribal/racial memories could not be suppressed. Upon his death it was these entrenched differences that developed into the Sunni/Shiite split, which has endured to this day; last exploding into serious bloodshed in the Iran/Iraq War (September 1980 to August 1988) that slaughtered approx. half a million Iraqi and Iranian soldiers, and similar numbers of civilians, with vastly more injured/crippled.

As I seem to be unpopular here, I'm sure someone will attempt to nit-pick the short summary of a seriously complex situation above; but please verify/check every word yourself. You'll find that although the message it contains is currently unwelcome/unmentionable by the PC brigade; it's all absolute truth.

Posted on 23 Jun 2014, 13:29:33 BST
By the rivers of Babylon? didn't Boney M have a hit with that.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Jun 2014, 13:35:18 BST
Dan Fante says:
Aye. Double A-side with 'Brown Girl in the Rain'.

Posted on 23 Jun 2014, 18:43:24 BST
[Deleted by Amazon on 23 Jun 2014, 20:06:02 BST]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jun 2014, 15:05:58 BST
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jun 2014, 15:46:44 BST
Pendragon says:
Hi William

You say "British Special Forces train [ISIS fighters] in the NATO bases in Turkey".

Do you have a source for that statement?

Also "the US government allows ISIS to operate with impunity when it attacks the Syrian ... peoples"

How fortunate then that the British people and their MPs prevented the UK and (indirectly) the US governments (and UK opposition Labour party) from taking military intervention against the Assad regime on behalf of the Syrian rebels.

Last "the US government allows ISIS to operate with impunity ... when it threatens Iran".

I take it then that you believe the overtures the US is making to Iran to co-operate in defeating ISIS to be insincere?

Posted on 25 Jun 2014, 17:28:51 BST
Last edited by the author on 25 Jun 2014, 17:30:42 BST
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Jun 2014, 18:12:43 BST
Last edited by the author on 25 Jun 2014, 18:17:51 BST
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