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The UK should just accept the inevitable and embrace Islam


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Showing 201-225 of 437 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2013 20:53:18 BDT
Last edited by the author on 26 Sep 2013 21:08:33 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
I fully admit that Islam has to take the blame for many of the Western deaths by terrorism in recent years. To blame are certain religious leaders who preach a fast-track to heaven in the same way that the Popes did during the Crusades.

But what has the West done to them? Invasion of Iraq on a trumped up charge of WMDs with the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Invasion of Afghanistan, possibly the most bone-headed decision since the British tried it in the 19th century and the Russians in the 20th Century. Can you wonder why Muslim people are angry?

The West stood by while in 1994 the Tutsis in Rwanda, Catholic Christians, killed up to 1m of their fellow countrymen. Please put that in perspective on the few thousand Westerners who have been killed with infinitely greater provocation since then. In 1919 the British slaughtered nearly 400 people at the Golden Temple at Amritsar, in 1984 Hindus were responsible for the deaths of many more. How many Shinto and Buddhist Japanese massacred millions during the 1930s and 1940s?

So, Mr Bradbury, on exactly whom do you propose taking revenge? The nice lady that has run my local corner shop for 20 years and originally came from Muslim Bangladesh? Maybe my local "Indian" restaurant which is run by Muslims from Pakistan? The Lebanese restaurant below my offices (please don't blow that up, it would hurt!)?

I do not justify any murderer nor any terrorist and I think the bravery of the American people in response to 9/11 is fabulous. But if you call a person a killer because he is black or Muslim then you suffer from extreme predujice which is the sort of thing that leads to the problem in the first place.

Posted on 26 Sep 2013 21:07:08 BDT
Last edited by the author on 26 Sep 2013 21:09:24 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
I live in the South of Spain. Here you can (I'm told, for obvious reasons I have never tried) engage an Eastern European hitman for around Ä5,000 and he will have access to any country in the EU by virtue of his EU passport. So why not round up the lot of them and re-open Auchwitz to put an end to the problem?

Instead of the Jews, maybe we can do the Muslims this time, as well as the Romanians and Bulgarians, not to mention the Polish plumbers who pay their taxes in the UK and then go home.

Come on, this whole discussion is getting way out of control. Anyone who condemns someone else on the basis of race, colour or creed is a dangerous bigot.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2013 21:58:45 BDT
"But what has the West done to them?"

Two wrongs do not make a Right.

Right now there are factions residing within our UK communities who want to kill us. They have already done it on numerous occasions and the UK Establishment has bent over backwards to do absolutely nothing about it least it might be deemed 'offensive'.

"Anyone who condemns someone else on the basis of race, colour or creed is a dangerous bigot. "

Indeed, and its about time the Muslim council of Britain came out of the woodwork, denounced all atrocities committed by members of its faith, and proactively rooted out these people for the UK public to see.
Yet all I hear is the deafening sound of silence.

Its time to stop turning the other cheek.

Posted on 26 Sep 2013 22:47:22 BDT
Please correct me if I'm in-correct but I believe the laws and commands that gave Saul of Tarsus { later St Paul - wow, what a Thomas Becket type 180 } his mandate for killing Christians in the First century still stand in the Jewish faith. By order the Jews were authorized to kill Nazarenes, as we were then named.

Posted on 26 Sep 2013 22:55:33 BDT
Two Islamic ladies were showing photos and one said, "This is my son Abdul. He died a martyr as a suicide bomber".
The second said, "This is my son Kashim. He also died a martyr when he became a suicide bomber".

They looked at the photos again for a moment then first lady said to the second, "They blow up so fast don't they"?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2013 22:57:04 BDT
Spin says:
Roger; there is some debate as to what the word "Nazarene" means. For some it means "a person from Nazareth". However, there is evidence that "Nazarene" refered to what was considered at the time to be a "cult". If Jesus was a "Nazarene" in this sense, he, and anyone following him, would have been a heretic. And Judaism is quite strict about heresy.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Sep 2013 23:02:47 BDT
In past centuries in Britain it was a treasonable offence to be a Roman Catholic - in the days of Edward VI and Elizabeth or in the time of Mary a Protestant heretic - and you faced death if you raised your hand against the state { or even if you didn't for that matter }.

In the 14th C the Jews were driven out of England as being infidels { not of the faith } and not part of society.

Maybe it's time the same restrictions were applied against Islam in Britain. If they will not live peaceably with their Christian neighbours then drive them out. Christianity must again become the fighting faith it was in the days of El Cid.

Posted on 26 Sep 2013 23:27:19 BDT
Garscadden says:
There are people who want to kill us. 5 people per day die on roads, over 2000 injured. We should round up car drivers and send them back to driverstan.

Killing people is wrong. It doesn't matter if it is someone who thinks they drive better after two pints or a Somali who believes in an abrahamic god. It is wrong.

We have some of the safest roads in Europe. *One* of the reasons for that is that over the past ten years we have looked at what causes road accidents, and tackled those causes. Not because we have locked up everyone who drives, or knows someone who drives, or talks about driving. Maybe we should look at what causes radicalism, and see what can be done about that? And if we look at that and the best thing to do is bomb hell out of a country of poor people, fair enough. But it seems unlikely that is really the answer.

One of my favourite quotes" "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity."

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 00:14:59 BDT
There's a fatwa out on you already mate.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 07:34:39 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
Which would be why the Jews handed him over to Pontius Pilate and had him condemned to death.

Posted on 27 Sep 2013 07:51:50 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
A lot of you are asking why we don't take stricter methods to protect our citizens from radicals. This is a cutting from the Daily Mail by Richard Littlejon 13 November 2012 which should up the response rate a little but we need serious suggestions, extraordinary rendition? waterboarding? :

`So farewell then, Captain Hook. And good riddance. But don't kid yourselves that anything fundamental has changed, simply because Abu Hamza has finally been deported to America with the blessing of the European Court of Human Rights.

Britain will remain a safe haven for terrorists, murderers and rapists from all over the world. The pernicious "yuman rites" industry will continue to prevent us from kicking out foreign criminals, no matter how heinous their record.'

Yesterday, Abu Qatada - one of Captain Hook's sidekicks - won his appeal against deportation to Jordan, where he is wanted on terrorism charges and has been convicted in absentia. Of course he did. There was never a cat in hell's chance that he'd be booted out of Britain.

Qatada, variously described as `Al Qaeda's spiritual adviser' and `Osama bin Laden's right-hand man in Europe', will today be released on bail to resume his comfortable lifestyle in a London council house, lavished with an assortment of benefits provided courtesy of British taxpayers. So far he has cost us north of £1 million.

His brief, Edward Fitzgerald QC, who is paid out of the Legal Aid budget, told the Special Immigration Appeals Tribunal: `There is no justification for continuing to deprive Mr Othman of his liberty. Enough is enough, it has gone on for many years now.'

`Mr Othman'? That's his real name, apparently, but who knows? Qatada isn't exactly a co-operating witness. Most of these self-styled `clerics' have a variety of pseudonyms. This time next week he could be calling himself Ali Baba, or `Sheikh' Rattle and Roll. He claims to be Palestinian, but that probably isn't true, either.

Whatever name he chooses to adopt, whatever nationality he pretends to be, he'll have no difficulty finding lawyers and judges to indulge him.

We can't even blame `Europe' for this latest travesty. The European Court of Human Rights has already ruled - after a decade-long delay - that Qatada can be sent to Jordan.

No, this latest fiasco is made in Britain.

Despite assurances given to the Home Secretary Theresa May by the Jordanian government that evidence obtained by torture will not be used against Qatada, Mr Justice Mitting ruled that he wouldn't get a fair trial if he was deported.

Qatada had previously won a stay of deportation on a legal technicality after Mrs May filed an extradition order a day too early.

The Home Secretary humiliated herself and Britain by flying to Jordan to plead pathetically with its government not to use `tainted' evidence against Qatada.

As if that wasn't bad enough, yesterday she had to suffer predictable ritual gloating from Labour's lemon-sucker Yvette Balls-Cooper, cynically disregarding the fact it was her party which rolled out the red carpet for terrorists in the first place.

Labour's slavish obsession with `yuman rites' turned Britain into a happy hunting ground for terrorists from all over the world. Other countries have no difficulty kicking out undesirables. But the Left-wing legal establishment in Britain takes a perverse delight in providing succour to international terrorists and other assorted foreign crooks.

Last week, for instance, another court ruled that a Malaysian national - convicted of money-laundering, selling counterfeit goods and running an illegal immigration ring - could not be deported to her homeland because she would be `stigmatised' by having a criminal record.

You couldn't make it up.

In Opposition, Call Me Dave promised to repeal the European law at the root of all this madness but has reneged in office - protesting lamely that the Lib Dems won't let him. Cameron should be ashamed of his cowardice.

It means Britain will continue to be a taxpayer-subsidised playground for foreign jihadists, murderers and torturers, as well a lucrative meal ticket for opportunist lawyers filling their boots at the `yuman rites' trough.

Almost all the arguments against deporting them are bogus. Jordan is one of Britain's main trading partners in the Middle East. If it does indeed practise torture, why are we doing business with it? Why is the King of Jordan an honoured guest at Buckingham Palace if his country is such a pariah?

Then again, we refused to extradite terrorists to Egypt, even though Tony Blair was taking his holidays there. We had the ridiculous spectacle of the Prime Minister and the Wicked Witch sunning themselves at Sharm el-Sheikh while her lawyer colleagues at Matrix Chambers were arguing that Egypt was guilty of serious human rights abuses.

And take the case of another of Captain Hook's comrades-in-terror, the self-styled `Ayatollah of Tottenham', who spent years fighting deportation to Lebanon, on the grounds that it wasn't a `safe' country.

Then, in the aftermath of 9/11, when he was panicked into believing that he wasn't `safe' in London N17, either, he legged it . . . to Lebanon.

He now uses Lebanon as a base to broadcast hate-sermons back to Britain via the internet - Al Qaeda's answer to Radio Luxembourg.

If he ever decides to set foot back in Britain, we'd never be able to get rid of him.

As the Abu Qatada case illustrates, the British legal system is only too happy to elevate the `rights' of terrorists over the rights of our own citizens to sleep easily in our beds.

More than ten years ago, I invented a spoof game show called Asylum! in which gangsters and terrorists from all over the world could win the right to live in Britain, on benefits.

It's been doing the rounds on the net ever since.

What started as a joke is now beyond parody. Being proved right is no consolation.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2232030/From-Abu-Hamza-Abu-Qatada-Im-say-I-told-.html#ixzz2g4bNpUAk
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Posted on 27 Sep 2013 08:11:24 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
In the shocking Westgate siege in Kenya, one of the terrorists was said to be British and several US citizens. Today's Economist says that Al-Qaeda is recruiting more fighters than any time in the last 25 years. Maybe MI5 should be recruiting Muslim agents to get better intelligence of what goes on behind the closed door of the mosque.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 08:15:06 BDT
Ghostgrey51 says:
Mr Deshon
A word if I may sir
If you apply that doctrine to its conclusion, then that would mean that English people resident in Wales who did not speak welsh should be driven out; that anyone found to be a Christian in a location that is essentially secular should be 'asked' to move as their beliefs are disturbing, and so forth. Not being a regular contributor I am amazed that someone would actually think that the 14th century treatment of Jews should be considered 'a good thing' (or is this some humour that I am glad to say escapes me)
Also as a Christian I must ask you, again are you being flippant when you suggest we bring back the crusades as a military and political policy or are you truly serious.? Does this mean we have God's Blessing to kill?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 08:17:11 BDT
Ghostgrey51 says:
Garscadden
Brilliant post.
It's one of those 'Wish I'd thought of that moments' for me
Don't personally embrace the quote though, I'm more of 'If you want peace, prepare for war'(I think I have it right) sort.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 09:24:58 BDT
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLVM { If you would see peace, prepare for war }.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 09:28:25 BDT
Why is it so amazing to see God granting permission to kill? look to The Bible, for is that not what He did in the OT when the Israelites were told to go in to Canaan and massacre the inhabitants so they could settle there?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 09:38:37 BDT
Last edited by the author on 27 Sep 2013 13:14:20 BDT
If she did it would be really, really amazing...most wondrous to contemplate.

But then The Bible, The Qur'an The Torah and all them holy books was written by blokes.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 09:44:29 BDT
Last edited by the author on 27 Sep 2013 09:54:24 BDT
Mr Sykes.

We all know that throughout history mankind have treated their brothers abysmally. Rather than playing the 'blame-passing' game however, logic says we should attempt to prevent worse behaviour (perhaps involving nuclear weaponry?) occurring in the future.

You've used several historical examples above, so I'll counter with another. As Nazi attitudes made WWII ever more likely, huge numbers of German Jews attempted to flee Germany for safer locations. Many including MP Jack Straw's father and current Labour Party leader MP David Milliband's grandfather fled to England.

They were NOT welcomed with open arms and permitted to live off the fat of the land. Many were denied entry altogether (as security risks) and virtually all were incarcerated in prison camps for years simply to prevent any possibility of effective pro-Nazi activity The result of this very wise policy was that throughout five years of war not one Nazi spy remained undetected on the British mainland, or committed one act of pro-Nazi sabotage. The USA treated their Japanese population in an identical fashion for identical reasons.

I suggest that in today's political climate exactly the same sensible precautions are taken. Islamic immigration should be all but ended. Not because we know (or even think) these people ARE going to be terrorists; BUT simply because we cannot be sure they will not be. As to 'liberal' protests about equality/human rights etc... In my opinion the 'right' of those people currently living here NOT to be murdered or maimed by foreign fanatics should be the Government's first priority, at least until the current racial/religious unrest has passed.

Similarly, all/any non-British citizens currently resident who actively speaking/campaigning on behalf of militant Islam should immediately be arrested and deported back to their land of origin with no right of appeal what'so'ever. If individuals prepared to demonstrate/hurl abuse at our troops returning from combat in Afghanistan are not 'potential' terrorists who is?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 10:24:50 BDT
H. M. Sykes says:
Mr Bradbury.

France has a huge Muslim population from North Africa, Germany has a huge Muslim population from Turkey, Spain has a huge Muslim population from Morocco. Given the free movement of peoples throughout the EU, exactly how do you propose to keep them out?

I was frequently in Iraq between the two Iraqi wars leading delegations to help supply medicine. The hospitals were full but had hardly any drugs and a health service which used to be cutting edge, most doctors were trained in the West, was reduced to sharing stethoscopes. The child leukemia rate doubled which many blamed on the use of depleted uranium bullets. However, I felt safer on their streets than in London.

Now, I would not dream of going there. Why? Iraq deserved to be invaded for its invasion and rape of Kuwait but the second Iraqi war has killed far more than Saddam ever came close to and the evidence of WMDs was completely fabricated. Can you not see from where this hatred comes and why I would not feel safe there? Can you not see that the Iraqis were using weapons against the Allies that had been supplied by the USA during the Iran Iraq war and that the same goes in Afgahnistan where the US supplied the Taliban with weapons to defeat Russia.

If the West continue to inflict pain and suffering on the Muslims of this world is it suprising that they feel they need to fight back? We should pull out completely and let them sort their own problems out and then I would agree with you that visas should be scrutinised and not handed out except when the authorities are sure of the applicant.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 10:29:34 BDT
Last edited by the author on 27 Sep 2013 10:31:08 BDT
You will never stop war for, as was said in a movie { I can't recall the title} we [humankind ] are war. It is endemic in us and will never be rooted out.

I support this by an opinion of mine that states, when asked if humanity has progressed, "Humankind has indeed progressed. We have progressed from throwing rocks at the next man's cave to nuclear missiles at the next man's country".

Humans as a species is a blot on the planet and it would be better without us. What other species kills for pleasure? What other wastes, exploits and pollutes as do we sons and daughters of Eden? If I kick a dog he will, with justification, turn and bite me - he won't plot for ten years on how to bring me down, as we see in the TV series 'Revenge'. When do we see any animal species other than ours commit armed robbery then, with cowardice, grab an innocent bystander, most likely female, to use as a shield to aid escape.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 14:07:20 BDT
easytiger says:
Can see where the hatred comes from. So why single out Kenyan shoppers for cold blooded murder?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 14:09:01 BDT
easytiger says:
Is your tele stuck on the Disney channel?

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 14:12:56 BDT
Spin says:
Roger: Humans are the only species to have completely separated themselves from the natural environment. Hence their lack of concern for anything outside the concrete jungle.

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 14:14:30 BDT
RED,

This is a cliche ridden rant and its a load of rubbish, in my most humble and respectful opinion.

GB

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Sep 2013 14:16:59 BDT
HMS Secret Service,

Please explain why most of the people Islamic terrorists kill are Muslims.

GB.
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Initial post:  10 Jun 2013
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