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Is the demand by society for the disabled to achieve the goals of the abled leading to undue, unjustified pressure on those dealt a bad hand?d

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Showing 1-25 of 28 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 15 Feb 2013, 12:16:57 GMT
Spin says:
The Pistorious incident has made me wonder about the pressures placed on the disabled by a capitalist society...Pressures applied not only by the current mindset concerning equality, but by government laws as well.

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 12:49:47 GMT
Last edited by the author on 15 Feb 2013, 12:49:58 GMT
Dan Fante says:
He's seemingly a bloke so paranoid about being robbed that, despite living in a high security complex, he armed himself to the teeth. Factor into that that he had a tempestuous relationship with his wife and you have an 'accident' waiting to happen. I'm not sure there's a great deal more to it than that.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013, 13:04:20 GMT
Spin says:
Dan: I am not refering to the "Bladerunner". My question concerns the pressures placed on the disabled in todays capitalist, labour orientated, society with a hidden desire for physical and mental perfection. From boob-jobs to aerodynamic plastic legs to genetic research...How can a society claim to treat its citizens as equals with all this going on? The new Government laws in the UK demand that the diabled work for their money and if thgey are not able for paid work, they must volunteer their services. The demand for the disabled to live a life of the abled is a scandal, and I am not surprised if one or two eventually explode...

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 13:16:10 GMT
As there is likely to be a trial concerning this matter, it would be very wrong of us to make judgments about it here. I think a discussion about related issues is more appropriate, along the lines Spin suggests.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013, 13:34:22 GMT
Dan Fante says:
Which Pistorious were you on about then?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013, 13:45:22 GMT
Spin says:
Dan: As I have said, I am not talking about Pistorious. I am asking why disabled folk feel the need to emulate the abled and why society expects disabled folk to be just as contributory to a capitalist. labour orientated society as fit, healthy folk. It seems to me that the "equality" afforded to the disabled is simply a means to make money from the edges of society. And some disabled folk take this to heart and compete in all areas of life with the able-bodied, fearful that they will be considered less than human. Laws and expectations stating that a disabled person must work and play in a society built around the able-bodied are abominable.

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 13:59:02 GMT
easytiger says:
The Disability Act was bitterly fought for by the disabled lobby. Its main (and expensive) agenda was to adjust every piece of infrastructure, workplace etc so they could access them and thereby do the same things as as able-bodied people. There were already existing laws requiring a certain percentage of disabled people to be employed by larger companies, even on construction sites. I've been asked on a number of occasions if I could be classified as disabled as I have a slight limp due to a mc accident as they were due a visit from the 'Glimpy Bloke'. After all this vast expenditure/palaver the disabled have got what they wanted and ho-hum, they are now unwilling victims of a "capitalist, labour orientated society". Should have put them all in homes and let the tyres down on their wheelchairs then?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013, 14:15:25 GMT
Spin says:
east: A slight limp? Poor you.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013, 14:30:18 GMT
easytiger says:
Missing the point as usual.

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 14:51:38 GMT
J. Forbes says:
It seems to me that there are many ways in which a disabled person can work and contribute to society, especially nowadays when much fewer jobs than formerly require physical labour.

Most disabled people, I am sure, would wish to do what they can. It is enormously patronising to suggest that such people are just being exploited for capitalist ends.

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 15:08:45 GMT
This is a pretty vast subject to get all the points across, even making a start will barely brush the surface.
For many, many years disabled folk were treated as tenth never mind second calss citizens. They were preferably stuck in an institution somewhere wher the general populace did not have to be remotely aware of their existance let alone try to interact them. Pubs, restaurants etc were not unknown to refuse entry or ask them to leave so as not to offend their other clientele.
Due to the numbers of severely disabled servicemen returning from The World War and having difficult after their sacrifice in getting employment and thus feeding themselves the Government of the day introduced a law that all companies should have at least 8% bof their workforce disabled.
I do not know if this ever had any beneficial effect but certainly in my lifetime employers did every little thing they could to get an exemption or genarally flout the law as only lip service was paid by successive Governments to actually enforcing it. One astonishing excuse for not employng a disabled person was that "they eat more than normal people", This and many, many more hum-doozies really depicts the attitude
So there we had it, the disabled unable to support themselves and not able to enjoy much of a social life as access to both workplaces and recreation areas made difficult..
AS it is unlike them to show much humanitarian concern for the poorer members of socitey, one wonders if it was a mistake thet it was the Tory party who mintervened with the Disability Discrimination Act actually - rather than just making it look like - doing something which had a positive effect on the lives of disabled people.
Many disabled people are more than capable of making a valuable contribution to the workforce and it is wrong that they were/are discrimminated against from doing so, especially when every other criteria points to them being the best person for the job.
Equally it is wrong to force people who are not capable of doing so to go out and work. Unfortunately our Government has woken up to the fact that they unintentionally did something right and good but which costs them money and doesn't have quite enough votes in it.

Posted on 15 Feb 2013, 18:53:43 GMT
easytiger says:
Get the feeling on these forums that people who give no votes to reasonable arguments are themselves disabled. Dyslexic would be polite; mentally spazzed would be more direct.

Posted on 16 Feb 2013, 12:57:49 GMT
Roma says:
Disabled people should be supported in every way possible to enable them to reach their full potential. Legislation has made a difference to people with mobility issues, but much needs to be done in other areas. At the moment, however, terrible pressure is being put on disabled people by government agencies such as Atos. It should be the medical professions who have a better understanding of what an individual can do who make decisions about work capability. There aren t enough jobs at present anyway for the general population,so it is actually extremely difficult for people with disabilities to gain employment.This present gov don t actually care about improving employment opportunities. They simply want to take as many as possible off disability living allowance. Their focus is on creating as much contempt for the vulnerable to create division in society and have better off people support their cruel and heartless measures and to detract from the real problems. Shame on them!

On the other hand there is one aspect of the way in which we support difficulties which annoys me and that is that there is no acknowledgement of the support people with
dyslexia receive on their certificates. I am glad that the support is provided. Absolutely. I just feel to be fair to prospective employers certificates should detail the means by which they were achieved. I have had students who have gained qualifications in English but have required both a reader and a scribe.As their certificates dont t indicate this it is not evident they have dyslexia.While for many jobs this is not a problem forsome it is

Posted on 16 Feb 2013, 13:52:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Feb 2013, 13:53:12 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Roma, you are talking nonsense.

This unfortunate government has inherited a terrible problem, and is trying to deal with it, quite rightly, by reducing unnecessary expenditure (amongst other things). One area of unnecessary expenditure is paying for people who claim disability benefit but who are actually capable of working.

I am sure it will sometimes (perhaps often!) get things wrong, but it's actions are not driven by a lack of concern, but by a need to improve our dire economic situation, and it is totally untrue to claim that they are trying to create contempt and division.

Cameron himself had to care for a severely disabled child until it died. I would guess that he knows as much as or more than you do about disability.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 14:14:08 GMT
Roma says:
Sorry that you feel I m talking nonsense. Of course, people who are not entitled to benefits should not receive them. There were already measures in place which if they were properly enforced would effectively deal with fraud without striking fear into the genuine cases.
With regard to DC et al I think it is genuine ignorance on their part which prevents them from understanding what effects their changes to the Social Services are having. Dealing with a disabled child is difficult for any parent. It must be easier when you have the finances to engage the best services available for them. Do you really think he understands how difficult life is for those people who have a disabled child and live in poverty. Yes, i do know what it s like to have a disabled child. I have a now disabled adult daughter which brings me into contact with other disabled people and their carers. I have witnessed first hand their increasing worry and insecurity.

Posted on 16 Feb 2013, 14:40:50 GMT
J. Forbes says:

I think we are largely in agreement, once the hyperbole is stripped away. I know it must be extremely distressing for genuine cases, and I take the point that it is difficult enough for anybody to get a job these days.

But I don't think the emotive stuff helps. There really is a major financial/economic problem, and people fighting for the rights of the disabled need to recognise and appreciate the government's position if they are going to have any hope of being heard by government.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 15:14:09 GMT
Roma says:
Sorry, I can t apologise for the emotion and don t recognise the hyperbolic nature of my claims. Until the Gov close all loopholes with regard to tax evasion and reverse the tax deduction for those in higher income brackets they are morally wrong to target the most vulnerable.

I ll give you one example of what it s like to be disabled in our society. My daughter was recently in hospital to monitor a change in medication. Psych services are very good in my area and patients are allowed out on pass as often as possible. This means they are often at home during the day and return in the evening. Because they sleep in the hospital they are regarded as being there 24x7. They then soon have their benefit severely cut. This has happened to my daughter. This time when she wa s discharged the week before Christmas she discovered that her benefit had not been paid although she was entitled too it. She received it a month later. She was upset (understatement) but there was no real problem as she lives a home with supportive parents who could provide for her. But, no apologies, i was very emotional. Not for her but all those others who perhaps had no one or no one with the financial needs to help. Like most other posters i love to argue for arguments sake but some issues are really to serious to try to score political points.

Posted on 16 Feb 2013, 15:19:29 GMT
J. Forbes says:
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Posted on 16 Feb 2013, 15:23:23 GMT
Roma says:
Sorry for wasting my time and yours.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 15:24:44 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Only liars and idiots (I suppose there is no need to mention the name Milliband) rattle on about the 50% rate of tax.

When tax rates rise too far, people increase their efforts to avoid and evade tax, and they will not stop at the marginal increase.

The 50% rate did not raise more money. That is why it was right to abandon it.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 15:39:26 GMT
Dear Forbesy...let's get back to 98% tax ....

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 17:07:07 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
Forbes - Roma has made some relevant points, your arrogance does you no favours.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 18:22:03 GMT
Aye, right enough. Previously the well off hired accountants to probe every square inch of their affairs, seek out every last cent of tax they were due and ensure it was promptly paid.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 20:54:21 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Let Roma fight her own battles, KH.

She's quite capable of doing so, and if you look a little deeper you will see that I haven't argued with most of what she has said. I have a lot of time for her views, but she has been misled on the subject of the 50% tax rate.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Feb 2013, 20:55:27 GMT
J. Forbes says:
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  9
Total posts:  28
Initial post:  15 Feb 2013
Latest post:  16 Feb 2013

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