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Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum

Is it right that certain NI politicians are paid politicians and not in jail?


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Showing 1-25 of 26 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 14 Oct 2009, 00:20:22 BST
Liammons says:
I personally found it rather touching when recently seeing an interview with Lord TEbbit about the 25 year anniversary of the Brighton bombing to see his genuine sadness about the whole affair.
Is it not rather abhorrent that the UK tax payer now pays a salary to Martin Mcguinness and certain other citizens of considerable disrepute on BOTH sides of the NI political devide? Surely if it is enough to ship people off to an internment camp for the mere mention of fundamentalist Islamic sympathies, then all these self confessed mercanaries of terror ought to languish in jail where they belong?

Posted on 14 Oct 2009, 01:38:45 BST
Black Mask says:
Seeing Tebbit stretchered out of that hotel, covered in dust with his d*ck hanging out of his pyjamas, was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

Posted on 14 Oct 2009, 10:23:12 BST
Last edited by the author on 14 Oct 2009, 10:25:42 BST
Personally I applaude the whole peace-process. You could, of course, imprison these men and make them rot in jail but this isn't joined-up thinking. Do that and you would throw Ireland (north and south) and the mainland UK back into chaos, bloodshed and anarchy. Is that what you want? Or would you rather have them imprisoned and the blood of so many more innocents on your hands? You can't have both.

It's called reconcilliation and it comes at a price for both sides. We attempt to forgive and forget, they attempt to achieve their aims through democratic and non-violent means.

David Ben-Gurion and Nelson Mandela might agree.

Posted on 14 Oct 2009, 18:15:52 BST
B. D. Hitch says:
how very true...you don't make peace by talking to your friends...an accommodation with your enemies must be made, if it can....

In reply to an earlier post on 14 Oct 2009, 21:46:26 BST
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Posted on 14 Oct 2009, 23:46:21 BST
Liammons says:
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Posted on 15 Oct 2009, 00:58:00 BST
Last edited by the author on 15 Oct 2009, 01:11:39 BST
Well, we're equal then as the asinine and ignorant nature of your posts horrify me too. You have no concept of the bigger picture and no understanding of what the word "politics" truly means. You're dangerously ignorant in fact, believing you have the answer to all of what you perceive to be the nation's ailments and providing "solutions" which would cast us back into conflict, war, heartache and inequality.

What exactly was cowardly about my post? I am patriotic to a fault and would be willing to lay my life down for my country. I have worn a uniform and bear no shame but I am, however, a realist and cannot believe that further violence is a suitable future for Northern Ireland. Holding the likes of McGuinness, whom I despise, to account for any previous crimes, whatever they may have been, would ensure that Northern Ireland descended into more anarchy and chaos. That's not a cowardly statement it's just stating the patently obvious and shame on you for descending to personal insults when you see yourself losing the argument.

Posted on 15 Oct 2009, 09:17:56 BST
P. Thompson says:
As an ex-soldier who was actually involved in a bomb attack by the IRA on my barracks in germany in the late 70s I can quite categorically say that I fully support the peace process and think that the alternative, to continue to wage a war against republicanism, would be the worst of all possible worlds. If Ian Paisley could accept Martin McGuiness as someone genuinely interested in peace, then I am sure that we can as well. The world moves on and only those with a political axe to grind (the intransigent on both sides) hope to stop it.

Posted on 15 Oct 2009, 11:43:51 BST
Whats the old adage governments talk about today

"We will never talk to (negotiate with) terrorists" makes a mokery of justice for the victims etc.
As thats what we all said way back in the 40's 50's 60's 70's and so on.

But we did talk and we have peace with the Republicans of Ireland and power sharing.

I dont agree with my tax being used to pay people who in a nut shell are convicted murderers.

Posted on 15 Oct 2009, 23:43:21 BST
realist says:
h

Posted on 16 Oct 2009, 00:00:43 BST
realist says:
could someone explain what quantifies as a victim and what quantifies as a terrorist.i would be interested to know your opinions

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Oct 2009, 00:41:24 BST
Liammons says:
P Thompson,
i think you will find if you dig deep enough that Mr Paisley and his party also have 'links' to paramilitary groups, just not as clearly defined as those of McGuinness.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Oct 2009, 00:44:58 BST
Liammons says:
Mr Galbraith,
i think you rather miss the point, as the poster above states, the terrorista of today are ALMOST ALWAYS the politicians of tommorrow. Every time we give in to the demands of violence we leave the door open for a new group to take up the gun. Its a proven fact that the shinners are a minority political group, so how exactly does that make it necessary to do deals with that, even beyond that level, by all means deal with them as a party or concept but at least serve justice on the trigger pullers.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Oct 2009, 13:12:27 BST
Unfortunately Ms Taylor you are either ill informed, un-educated or down right stupid if you believe that Ulster is a country, not a province which consists of 9, yes nine counties!!!! As for your comments on Mr McGuiness, there are a large number of individuals and groups on either side of the divide with dubious pasts and to place the spot light on one and not all is symbolic of the mentality of yester year, which could be seen to be the cause of all the ills in the six counties. I would suggest that perhaps prior to posting ridiculous comments on websites you spend a few pounds on Amazon buying books which may make you more informed and therefore better placed to provide an opinion.

Posted on 16 Oct 2009, 14:40:12 BST
Withnail says:
The point could be addressed like this -

Is all violence wrong? If so, then all politicians who commit to violence against other people should be in prison.

That would obviously include Margaret Thatcher for the sinking of the Belgrano and Tony Blair for commiting the UK to wars in Iraq and Afganistan, as well as ex members of the IRA.

If Martin McGuinness and David Irvine can turn his back on violence, then maybe there is hope that British Prime Ministers can as well.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Oct 2009, 14:35:28 BST
Mary Finean says:
Liammons
The Ulster you describe dates back to the days of the Celtic times when Tara was the centre of an early attempt at democracy. It had a well developed system of laws, Brehon Law, and a rather devolved system of government. By the standards of the time it was a good system.

The current state of Ulster was born after an agreement with the British government that each county in Ireland would vote on the issue of whether they should be ruled from London or form a free state.

Four northern counties decided to stay with England and the rest voted for a free state. The London government then decided that four counties could not form a sufficient block to be left to themselves. It was decided that two counties who had voted for independence would be included in the separated area against the wishes of their people. It also practically cut off Donegal from the rest of the free state. Part of the decision was the threat from private armies in the North to start another war at a time when Britain was heavily in debt for the previous one.

History shows that Empires do not pay much respect to arguments which are not backed by force. There was a lot of talk about paying no attention to bombers etc. but at the end of the day the politicians holding power in N.I. today are the ones who kept in close touch with the military approach to democracy. The others were simply sidelined.

Same old story. Shoot the referee and win the match.

Mary

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Oct 2009, 14:36:15 BST
Mary Finean says:
Liammons
The Ulster you describe dates back to the days of the Celtic times when Tara was the centre of an early attempt at democracy. It had a well developed system of laws, Brehon Law, and a rather devolved system of government. By the standards of the time it was a good system.

The current state of Ulster was born after an agreement with the British government that each county in Ireland would vote on the issue of whether they should be ruled from London or form a free state.

Four northern counties decided to stay with England and the rest voted for a free state. The London government then decided that four counties could not form a sufficient block to be left to themselves. It was decided that two counties who had voted for independence would be included in the separated area against the wishes of their people. It also practically cut off Donegal from the rest of the free state. Part of the decision was the threat from private armies in the North to start another war at a time when Britain was heavily in debt for the previous one.

History shows that Empires do not pay much respect to arguments which are not backed by force. There was a lot of talk about paying no attention to bombers etc. but at the end of the day the politicians holding power in N.I. today are the ones who kept in close touch with the military approach to democracy. The others were simply sidelined.

Same old story. Shoot the referee and win the match.

Mary
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In reply to an earlier post on 3 Nov 2009, 17:45:23 GMT
If you do not want to pay McGuinness, who is an elected rep., then hand back the 6 counties to the Irish and leave!

In reply to an earlier post on 4 Nov 2009, 19:37:02 GMT
Liammons says:
I alredy did leave, now residing in Ireland.

In reply to an earlier post on 5 Nov 2009, 07:07:23 GMT
Withnail says:
Liam -

You started this thread by taking the line that "once a terrorist - always a terrorist".

However, you live in Ireland (the republic I am assuming). Which of the main parties do you support?

Do you support Fine Gael - formed out of the quasi fascist Blue Shirts?

Or perhaps Fianna Fail founded by Dev, as a splinter from Sinn Fein?

Or maybe good old Sinn Fein?

You can't tar modern politicians/exterrorists, without also tarring historic politicians/exterrorists. By extention you would say that Garret Fitzgerald was a right wing fascist because that was where Fine Gael started.

Posted on 5 Nov 2009, 09:43:58 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 5 Nov 2009, 09:51:52 GMT]

Posted on 5 Nov 2009, 19:13:16 GMT
Last edited by the author on 6 Nov 2009, 13:23:53 GMT
Sandy says:
In NI approximately 60% of people want to be British and would mostly have been happy for the pre-1972 system of majority government to continue indefinitely. The remaining 40%, wanted to be Irish and had no chance of achieving this within that system; hence the troubles. Which of these two camps you belonged to was a matter of birth - there is no absolute right or wrong about it. What has happened now, hopefully, and despite some of the opinions above, is that a sufficient number of people have recognized that they can't have everything they want and that something has to be conceded to the other side. Personally I loathe what terrorists of various stripes did during those years, but as Paisley himself belatedly realized you can't build a future on mutual hatred. People like republican dissidents on one side and the likes of Liammons above on the other fail to realize this, thinking that the mutual accusations of the past are more important; when will they see that the answer is not, this is what I want and to hell with what you want?

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Nov 2009, 07:05:50 GMT
N. Curran says:
Mr Hendersons reply illustrates the real problem in Eire which is the association with of modern politics in Eire with civil war politics and hang-ups.The modern generation have never heard of Eoins Blue Shirts and Dev died in the 1970s and to understand Sinn Fein we need to go back to the early years of the 20th century.What we need now is full participation in a peace process that puts to rest the past and moves all of us on to the future and to fo this we need understanding and forgiveness not misinformation and division.I cant stand Paisley and I am not too keen on any IRA politician but if they can work together for a better future it should be both a starting point and an example for not just Eire and the rest of Britain but the whole world.There is a lot wrong with society in Ireland and with old attitudes toward such matters as the influence of the catholic Church in secular life in Ireland but we will never make the changes if we dont forgive,reconcile the diffrences we can and learn to live with the diffrences we cant.I am Irish and grew up and lived in Eire until I came to live in England in 1994 so I do know what I am talking about and more importantly what I feel,we must forgive,lose the civil war attitudes,move on from the troubles and forget about dev who was the amn who gove Ireland the most repressive constitution of a country modern political history.Having met Garett Fitzgerald on numerous occasions there isnt a more unlikely right wing facist in world and with the odious Nick Griffin and BNP on our political stage at the moment clearly illustrating the real dangers of uneducated,disgusting,replusive views we dont need anymore right wing fasists.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Nov 2009, 12:46:26 GMT
Withnail says:
Thanks Mr Curran -

You have elequently expressed my opinion on this matter. I have no time for terrorism, or violence politics. However, I have to concede that most of the people and organisations that have made greatest impact on modern Ireland all burst onto the national stage through violence and polarised political positions.

Posted on 6 Nov 2009, 12:55:25 GMT
gille liath says:
There's no right answer on this: it's impossible to reconcile the opposing standpoints. But if you want peace, you have to be willing to let the past go. Though I sympathise with Tebbit (and I never thought I'd say that), it seems he hasn't learnt that - though he expects others to.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  16
Total posts:  26
Initial post:  14 Oct 2009
Latest post:  6 Nov 2009

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