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Cheap clothes; cheap lives


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Showing 1-25 of 85 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 25 Apr 2013 16:49:15 BDT
Spin says:
Our demand to save money tends to result in abominable working conditions in nations with no laws concerning "minimum wage" or "Health and safety". Isn't there something odd about the fact that we get cheaper products through slavery than through local producers?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:20:47 BDT
Poor building standards and health and safety are endemic in the third world. Many thousands of people are killed every year in the third world by structural failures, fires, etc., that are the product of poor safety standards or poor engineering, that have nothing to do with clothing factories. If you think that your choice of what jeans you buy will make any difference to that, think again.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:30:13 BDT
Spin says:
Player; Many years ago, I objected to our assumption that cheap-products by slave labour was detrimental, not beneficial, to our lifestyle or morals. Do as you wish.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:32:32 BDT
Spin. Greed...greed...greed....greed....greed....greed....everywhere....

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 19:33:52 BDT
Spin says:
GREED ONLY IF YOU PROFIT1

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 19:45:52 BDT
The anti-globalization campaigners who say we shouldn't buy third world products because the products are bad for us, or safety standards are poor, working hours are long, pay is low, conditions are tough, etc., etc., are usually funded by organizations such as trade unions, farmers or manufacturers based in Western countries who stand to profit if we buy their more expensive products. Through this system of funding, desire for profit ("greed" as you call it) is disguised for concern either for our welfare as customers, or the welfare of workers in the third world. It's all nonsense. If we want to improve standards in the third world, we can help by offering assistance to the relevant bodies in the third world. Boycotting third world products, as I have heard some suggest in the media today, would just make things a lot worse for the people in those third world countries.

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 19:49:38 BDT
Spin says:
It is cheaper to buy products made overseas. Why? because despite your claim to deny slavery, you still employ it.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 20:05:21 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2013 20:05:58 BDT
No, it's because wages are lower in the third world. To conflate this with slavery, is to belittle the evils of slavery.

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 20:15:27 BDT
Spin says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2013 21:52:51 BDT
Your notions of morality are deeply confused. Boycotting third world goods is not a moral thing to do. It's a misguided and harmful thing to do, that has a superficial appearance of morality.

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 22:04:14 BDT
Spin says:
Of course. my belief that foreign production of western goods is no more than a lifestyle to our advantage is no ,more than capitalist profiteering.... And you guys claim that "Slaverry"

Posted on 25 Apr 2013 22:05:32 BDT
Spin says:
Primark and Marks & Spencers!

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Apr 2013 09:32:58 BDT
G. Heron says:
Spin

Behold the free market in action, third world countries can produce items cheaply by treating their employees like slaves and ignoring health and safety so they get the orders.

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Apr 2013 09:54:56 BDT
Last edited by the author on 26 Apr 2013 10:58:29 BDT
Dan Fante says:
Do you think, generally speaking, people in developing countries would be better off unemployed or working making things for Primark?

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 20:23:56 BDT
Spin says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

Posted on 28 Apr 2013 20:58:55 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Apr 2013 20:59:21 BDT
Spin says:
Don't worry. Europe will soon be in the same dire straits as those countries you felt obligated to donate to. Only then will you reflect on the fact that Capitalism entails slavery.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:00:19 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'PlayerPianoPlayer says:

Boycotting third world products, as I have heard some suggest in the media today, would just make things a lot worse for the people in those third world countries.'

Sadly, I think you're right.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:02:02 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'G. Heron says:

Spin

Behold the free market in action, third world countries can produce items cheaply by treating their employees like slaves and ignoring health and safety so they get the orders.'

What happened in the factory system in England in the 19th century, ruthless exploitation, is now all over the developing world.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:03:35 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Apr 2013 22:10:42 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Spin says:

...Capitalism entails slavery.'

Yes dear boy, always has, always will sadly. Those who can, will exploit; those who have no choice, will be exploited.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:10:11 BDT
Spin says:
TSC: Indeed. The sad thing is not those overseas being exploited by our Capitalism, but our own society kissing the cheeks of those laughing at us. The only way to make progress in this World is to end capitalism. Now.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:12:37 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Spin says:

TSC: Indeed. The sad thing is not those overseas being exploited by our Capitalism, but our own society kissing the cheeks of those laughing at us. The only way to make progress in this World is to end capitalism. Now.'

You could be right my friend. Problem; what do we put in its place? That for me, is where all the trouble begins, but I am always interested in hearing solutions to capitalism.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Apr 2013 22:17:59 BDT
Spin says:
TSC: Communitarianism.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Apr 2013 14:28:36 BDT
Pipkin says:
It would appear that they are damned if they don't and even more damned if they do if yesterday's horrific news is anything to go by.

**'
'What price cheap Goods''
Scores killed in Bangladesh clothing factory collapse; many still missing
''Tragedy is no isolated problem, as demand for cheap clothing grows, and big brands look to reduce prices, which involves cutting corners on health and safety,'' says Anna McMullen of campaign group' Labour Behind the Label' which supports garment workers' efforts worldwide to improve their working conditions
She works with global partners on campaigns around poverty wages in the fashion industry, and has co-authored research reports on labor rights. Follow @labourlabel on Twitter.

The sad fact behind the building collapse in Bangladesh in which hundreds died is that it isn't an isolated problem. The story will leave the headlines at the end of this week, but on Monday hundreds of thousands of workers will return to factories that are frankly further tragedies waiting to happen, and will keep producing clothes for high street brands.

700 workers have died in factory collapses and fires in this very small region outside Dhaka alone in the last decade.

Savar, where the building collapse took place, is a ''swampland'' (yes, swampland...) north of the Bangladeshi capital which has seen mass growth in recent years.

This same region was the site of a horrific factory fire in November last year, when 112 workers burned alive in a building with no fire exits.

Hundreds of factories are being thrown up in a short space of time, with limited building regulations, to meet the growing demand from western brands for cheap export clothing. And it is cheap. Wages for Bangladeshi workers are the lowest in Asia, aside from the recently opened Myanmar industry, at $37 a month.**

So - do I really want this on my concience...NO. IMO what we should all be campaigning for is for them have UNION REPRESENTATION, which brought us out of the dark ages..... but according to Thatcher and her supporters....strangled, and killed the industries??????? When in point of fact - this was the real reason they killed our industries.
regards,
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Apr 2013 16:22:56 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Apr 2013 16:24:09 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'M. E. Phelan says:

It would appear that they are damned if they don't and even more damned if they do if yesterday's horrific news is anything to go by.'

Yes, you're absolutely right Margaret. If they don't work they starve; if they work they are ruthlessly exploited. We in the West buy cheap clothes in some cases because we have no choice; if you're unemployed or working in some chronically low-paid job, and then have to pay gas and electricity bills, council tax, TV licence, phone and internet bills, rent and the ever-spiralling cost of groceries and essentials, what real choice do you have? In the end, the greed of others forces everyone else to either become greedy like them just to survive, or forces those who are poor to be as frugal as possible. For the poor in the West, cheap quality clothes are a Godsend, for the poor in the East, cheap clothing means cheap labour and exploitation. I hate to say this but there is no easy practical solution and nor do I think you, I, or anyone else is going to stop this type of exploitation, not quickly or easily anyway.

'So - do I really want this on my concience...NO. IMO what we should all be campaigning for is for them have UNION REPRESENTATION, which brought us out of the dark ages..... but according to Thatcher and her supporters....strangled, and killed the industries??????? When in point of fact - this was the real reason they killed our industries.'

Yes, but you shouldn't be guilty Margaret because you are not creating it in the first place. If we all stopped buying cheap clothes, the business class there would find something else to make money from and still exploit their poor. All global economics is about this now sadly. Money and investment shifts like the tide on the beaches, to where profits are highest and social concern are at the lowest or don't come into the equation. It was like this in the 1930's in Britain, which is not so long ago.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Apr 2013 17:45:38 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Apr 2013 18:33:44 BDT
Pipkin says:
I know all about the 30's. My Granny used to tell me all about it.
They had NOTHING.....She was born in 1925 and had no shoes, no underclothes.. nothing... When she eventually got a pair of boots, they were handed down from her brothers and were three or four sizes too big.
She used to have a saying 'First up best dressed.' When she had six children of her own, she used to buy flour sacks and make the girls shifts and stockings, and bought rags for a penny, which she made into trousers and shirts for the boys. All sewn by hand. There were no nappies for babies? No Doctor unless you could pay for one? And no toilet paper? My Grandad was a porter on the railway. Any food that she was able to afford, like beast cheeks, marrow bones or fish heads was bulked up with potatoes, dumplings and cabbage, which was added to each day, and given to my Grandad, and the children, then she had what ever was left. She used to make bread and this was about all they ever ate.
I was born in 1945 and have a photograph of her with my cousin and me age two, which my Uncle took of us with his new fangled toy, and she looked like someone from Belsen, she was so thin with sunken cheeks and eyes. God bless her.
My Auntie and cousin, Mum and I lived with her until I was eight. Every day she made a rice pudding with water and condensed milk... for my Grandad ... and my cousin and I used to get the scrapeings from round the dish, which was a real treat? My Despite my Mum working and paying for our keep....'Our' 'meals consisted of bread and lard, bread and condensed milk (which my Grandad insisted she bought) and bread and gravy. I think that is why I am so frugal, and grateful for every single thing in my life. My Grandad was a seriously selfish S o b and a child molestor to boot.....
What I say is.. thank God for the Unions, because without them, we would still be in those times now... some would even say we are returning to them?
Regards,
Margaret.
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Discussion in:  politics discussion forum
Participants:  10
Total posts:  85
Initial post:  25 Apr 2013
Latest post:  15 May 2013

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