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Indie books far from becoming extinct

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Showing 151-175 of 247 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 19:57:55 GMT
I'm a pheasant plucker's son.

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 19:34:04 GMT
carocaro says:
It's a state of snobbery Michael.
I didn't know you were a pheasant!

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 19:24:28 GMT
Hmm . . .

I ain't buying the Lit-fic argument. People *seem* to be saying that you need to be *educated* to get it. But on the other hand complaining that people don't buy it. Nevertheless, it must be good because it receives awards. Ah, but who gives out these awards? I suppose it's like one of those country clubs where your membership depends on your breeding.

It's a crock!

I get it. I just don't like it. Then again I don't like Ballet, Opera, Dressage, or Broccoli. I must be a minion, or a heathen, or a revolting peasant.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 15:40:22 GMT
Michael. Michael, you wouldn't enjoy the book! For one thing, I would be far more inclined to read the first book you described in your Jackie Riley pitch than the second book, which sounds like just another romance story: boy meets girl, girl hates boy, boy wins round girl and they live happily ever after. Not my kind of book, although I appreciate and understand that these books are extremely popular and beyond my capability to write as an author. You need to be totally in love with the romance genre to write good romantic fiction.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 15:24:18 GMT
I Readalot says:
There is an exception to the 'real world' situations in the guise of magical realism, when extraordinary and fantastic things happen in the real world, Haruki Murakami for example.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 14:24:15 GMT
Frank Mundo says:
Tinca, I think you're right. It's basically what IShouldBeWriting said earlier. The audience for that kind of writing is already small -- and most people who do read those types of books are often anti-indie.

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 14:12:05 GMT
carocaro says:
Hi Tinca,
Now if a novel were written with the criteria you mention above and can be combined into something attractive for the direst midden minds possible then you hit the jackpot:)

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 13:52:04 GMT
Tinca says:
Hello Frank,

I haven't been around in the game very long but I have tried those labels and one or two others. They make no difference - because if your writing has some or all of the features loosely called 'literary' - ie fully rounded characters in real-world situations (as opposed to any form of fantasy), a prose style that is varied and complex when necessary, a vocabulary that does not condescend to readers by always using the easy word, an understanding of the moral complexity of the world in which we live - if your writing has these features or even attempts them, then the market for you is tiny before you even click 'publish'. No label or genre category is going to make it any larger. If half a dozen readers discover you and enjoy your work, that is a triumph.

Michael, this is not a moan, it is a fact supported by the sales numbers of quality, literary fiction in all its forms, traditional or otherwise. Sales of a few thousand get well-known writers into the top ten hardbacks of the week list - not bad for a country of 60 million people! Most readers don't want to be challenged, they just want to go to sleep with their eyes open. As is their right....

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 11:43:11 GMT
carocaro says:
;)commonest 'amber' means uncomfortable and need a moment, think or discussion...'red' stop now can't cope with more, beyond my endurance levels.

I do edit and proofread novels and some head for publishers and others self published/indies. There are good and bad in both Ethereal. I see repressed, financial and legal constraints of the publishing houses and the open house of SP/I's that is open to abuse and gate crashers that do a lot of harm to those who enjoy their reading, literary fiction and non fiction. Yet the open house means that everyone who enjoys writing is free to publish and get a thrill at seeing their work available to be read by others. Even if it is the level of a 7 year old or a topic legal but not broadly acceptible to many, it is and still should be allowed. Like gold panning...that dream that will every so often will turn up a gem. Then it is readers like all of us that pass the message to others whether few or many.
The only thing I dislike is the people who take a current popular topic and novel and jush rehash it character, setting but virtually the same plot as a copy cat and not for the joy of writing but to make a fast buck and bring literary fiction into disrepute. I don't mind fan fic even if it is a genuine attempt to add something different or new.
I agree with I Readalot's comment above and it matches the actuality for sure.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 11:39:19 GMT
I Readalot says:
Good point, the fact is that it is a very tough business to get into in the first place and even tougher to stay in and make any money out of. For every author that gets lucky and breaks through there are probably 100's that don't maybe they will be content with knowing they have tried but I am sure that a lot become bitter and twisted believing that their offering is far better than the authors that make it - admittedly a few will be justified in thinking that.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 11:13:17 GMT
Ethereal says:
I've often wondered which is worst - not to get a publishing contract or to have one but the book goes out of print because what must that say to potential future publishers?

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 11:07:40 GMT
I Readalot says:
Fortunately there are still a lot of 'free thinkers' around, the kind of people who come into the shop regularly looking for something different the ones who avoid anything in the top 10 or the latest big thing unless it happens to be a favourite author. There are a lot of great novels being published by the smaller presses (there is a thread devoted to this) and the mainstream do take chances. Over the years I have received more proofs of debut novels than I can remember, some are OK but others are wonderful. Unfortunately quality alone isn't enough to get them noticed by the public and when it comes to unknowns the publishers only have so much cash available for publicity. These authors have as hard a time to get noticed as the SP's. Indie bookshops are the best place to discover out of the ordinary fiction but unfortunately they are becoming a dying breed especially with supermarkets cashing in on the sale of cheap books.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 10:53:51 GMT
Ethereal says:
I think because of your work and family connections to writing (if I remember rightly?) you have an allegiance to Indies which I don't (and I think allegiances can show great loyalty but mine are in other other areas), and I guess straddling the fence as I often do in these discussions can be irritating to some on either side of it. Perhaps we should have a "safe word," reverting to the frivolity of last night!

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 10:42:59 GMT
carocaro says:
True, but people are manipulated and always have been and so will continue to be so.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 10:19:03 GMT
Ethereal says:
"If anything resembles for example, Harry Potter contents where their lawyers can shout plagiarism and sue it don't get published, auto reject. So schools with magicians are out."

I think writers shout plagiarism the loudest and who can blame them?

I'm sure with the advent of ebooks the publishers are clamping down, not to mention recession when all businesses are in danger.
I still think it's impossible to disentangle the market from public vote, it's life with its harsh realities for writers to accept as everything else.

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 10:07:19 GMT
carocaro says:
Ethereal, it is rare that they gamble, they go on certs but occasionally those certs don't take off as they'd hoped. There used to be a lot more spent on new writers and new story themes. As their share of the pie has diminished with e readers and they realise now how much they have lost, so the certs are prized and become milch cows. Only those that come to note through the main literary competitions or they are more than reasonably sure of get a second look. Another insidious thing to consider, lawyers trawl the possibilities too. They can't afford the law suits that would come from anyone shouting plagiarism. If anything resembles for example, Harry Potter contents where their lawyers can shout plagiarism and sue it don't get published, auto reject. So schools with magicians are out.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 09:37:28 GMT
Ethereal says:
"I give you big brother...the publishing houses!"

I'm not sure it's as simple as that.
I see it as a vicious circle. The publishers want to make big money to stay ahead and market ferociously the books they hope the hordes will buy. So they take gambles on the next big thing and must get it wrong as often as right, and have to recoup their losses. Then when they do hit a bestseller it's as you say, "regurgitate what you produced in the first place" until that becomes stale. So who are the dictators, the public or marketers?

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 09:17:56 GMT
carocaro says:
Ah, Ethereal has just bought in, the behind the scenes mafia...they who control all you read...they who employ, wine and dine and back hand the l i t e r a r y critics to spout what glorious wonders of literary fiction we have to bedazzle you peacocks with now. They who stand beneath the windows of little manic fingers typing away the next prescribed input of literary fiction to dose you with, threatening them with time, and ever dwindling cash reserves if you can't regurgitate what you produced in the first place in another fifty shades of the same, whatever the Rankin, Patterson, McDermid theme you work at.
They who have sadistic but happy whipping boys of leaches called agents as back hand boys and girls. I give you big brother...the publishing houses!

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 09:05:22 GMT
Ethereal says:
I think the difference between career writers and the rest (who may take their writing just as seriously) is the first will write for the market, the second for themselves and like-minded readers.

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 08:44:39 GMT
carocaro says:
Frank, Michael, Shelagh et al. The poetry, the sport, the romance, the mundane upright and righteous, they may attract an audience, but one of minorities. Children and adults love the fantastomogorical, magical transportation to a world where dragons, griffins, trolls exist or people can swim and breathe beneath water, perform amazing feats. Then real adults...well put a story of for example some struggling horticulturalist who against all odds develops a new specie of plant that becomes a gold medal winner... or struggling horticulturalist that gets explicitly, titillatingly down and dirty and submissive in the compost with a sadistically devilish judge who binds her and forces her to his wicked ways till a rapturous climax is reached by all, told in ways that bring all your senses into play and maybe your own spontaneous combustion to relief...or young nubile horticulturalist, a fancied winner disappears to be found in minced chipping pieces as compost for her plants,
whilst writer tells in gory titillating detail Every nuance of how she terrifyingly met her end and whether the devilishly dastardly perpetrator can evade capture of a hunk or seduction
of detective sleuth and latest technology!
Sorry but number one will never make the best seller list...but the last two will! How if no big marketing company...word of mouth, to press publicity, to must have too syndrome!

Posted on 17 Jan 2013 00:35:49 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 17 Jan 2013 07:52:52 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 00:07:08 GMT
Frank Mundo says:
Yes, the second is definitely better. I guess the hard part for me will be figuring out the closest genre that makes sense.

In reply to an earlier post on 17 Jan 2013 00:05:15 GMT
Shelagh, it seems like you're trying to sell the car that Homer Simpson built. (Go, Google).
I assure you, the last person you should attempt to sell your work to is me. I hate all things writerly. I have a particular dislike for poetry. Give it up.
Don't take it personally. I dislike vegetables, too.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jan 2013 23:56:54 GMT
Last edited by the author on 17 Jan 2013 00:37:26 GMT
Good question, Frank.

Let's look at this . . .

"Jackie Riley has all of her hopes and dreams smashed in an instant. She's crippled for life. She must learn to live with it.

"In the 2008 Cycling World Championships, Jackie Riley is on the brink of setting a new world record and becoming world champion in the 3000m individual pursuit. As she reaches out for glory a tragic accident destroys her hopes and dreams, as well as shattering her legs, leaving her paralysed for life. After a year of physiotherapy and rehabilitation Jackie reluctantly employs Marcin "London" Luzik, a migrant Polish worker as her carer. Marcin convinces her to take part in the 2012 Paralympic Games. But Jackie's always been a winner, Marcin has to tell her - it's all about the taking part, and show her - you never know what you can achieve until you try."

- This is an accurate representation of the story but is fairly crappy as a pitch.

"Jackie Riley is damaged in more ways than one. When she employs immigrant Marcin Luzik as her carer she begins to fall in love with him. But why would he want to be with her, she's a cripple. Convinced he wants to be with her so he can get residency in the UK Jackie keeps him at arms length, and fights the desires of her heart."

- Same story. . . romance pitch.

I think the second sells better than the first.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jan 2013 23:47:56 GMT
Michael, You'll find lots of sport in my literary fiction novel: golf, rugby, football, tennis, jogging, cycling. Lots of drama, current events, shopping, films, music, literature. Sounds like television? It should do.
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Discussion in:  fiction discussion forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  247
Initial post:  10 Jan 2013
Latest post:  25 Jan 2013

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