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Non-Whigers' Forum. Hard working authors and sensible readers only

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Initial post: 18 Sep 2011, 18:10:28 BST
Someone in Amazon must have left their abacus at home.
When we promoted on Amazon, we made sales. Amazon made sales. No promotion, no sales. Ergo, Amazon wasn't losing sales through promo threads. Just the opposite. But, Whingers United will lose it money. They won't suddenly start buying more to make up for the shortfall. And we, the authors, will simply sell more through other, non-Amazon, channels. People who have been seeking us out here go where we go, not the other way round.

An interesting situation, don't you think?

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 18:27:56 BST
You don't know me but you may in the future. I am a struggling author like you. I will be soon posting my book onto Kindle quite soon having exhausted the traditional routes and finding that in this day and age in order for someone to to look at you you need to be a business expert. Personally I think it is appalling that you cannot promote your book on this of all sites, the site where it lives. I am yet to experience what you already have but listening to each of you I think Amazon need to revise their ways if they want Kindle to work. We seem to be getting cut off from all angles it seems.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 18:39:03 BST

Good luck with your publication.
And by all means, do upload it to Kindle. But, there are other outlets as well, and this change in Amazon policy will be gristle to their mill. After all, why should we be promoting Amazon on any networks against their will?

Anyway, off to a brighter subject. Tell us about your book.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 18:39:07 BST
carol arnall says:
I thought it was heading this way. All the signs were there. When .com started MOA Forum, I think we all knew it would head this way soon, or something like it.
I think we will all have to put our thinking caps on.
I agree with Mira and Phil, it does seem very strange to hit the authors!
Let's face it without the authors there wouldn't be a Kindle!
BTW Good luck Phil with your book. Many sales to you.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 18:42:05 BST
One thing that should be noted: since the promotion ban and the instigation of the Meet Our Authors forum on amazon dot com, all the book and kindle related forums have become much more abusive and most readers and authors have left.

I would also point out that there were very few book discussions of any sort in UK before authors started participating. And as for indie authors provoking complaints - you should have seen the animosity against kindle (rather than DTBs) when the store first opened here.

However, there are number of very civilised forums and groups on the goodreads site and I suggest anyone interested in discussing books - whether mainstream or indie - do so there.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 19:06:06 BST
@Ali, can't agree more. Goodreads is a brilliant place for talking books in any sense.

@Carol, IMO, right now. Amazon is simply too big to think clearly. Somebody will have a look at the situation and realise the cost of overreaction at some point. In the meantime, we just sell elsewhere. No harm done.

@Phillip, come to think of it, it's just as well that you haven't fallen into the habit of plugging your first book here. You can get used to promoting at a variety of outlets from the start.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 19:16:22 BST
monica says:
Ali, you seem a sensible sort who won't mind being corrected. I've followed this forum for a couple of years and it's simply not the case that there were 'very few book discussions of any sort in UK before authors started participating'. Turn to the oldest list of threads, work your way back, and you'll see your error. And though some threads were playful or trivial, some of them led to very good discussions about books: offering ideas which were expanded upon, disagreed with, or that inspired ideas in others, as good discussions do. Flogging one's wares in one post after another is by no definition a discussion.

What you say of US forum may very well be true, but the only conflict and frustration I've seen on this forum (as opposed to some of the others on UK site) arose, honestly, only with the influx of advertisers.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 19:24:32 BST
Ethereal says:
I agree, monica, I've been around for 18 months.
I don't think fiction had the turnover of kindle when it began a year ago, but that was just silly and impossible to keep up.
Most of the rows here were between readers and (print) self-published authors hijacking threads.
If this is the start of big changes, it will be interesting to see if those authors who do post in discussions will stay, and if the readers who disappeared will return.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 19:24:36 BST
Scarabo says:
I thought everyone was over at Goodreads anyhow? The aggro here is far too tedious, and the atmosphere is much better.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 19:39:12 BST
Ethereal says:
As I understand it, Goodreads also has a seperate section for author promos and doing so in the wrong place will be dealt with by the moderators. This hasn't needed to happen yet but I wonder if authors' frustration over Amazon will spill over into just that in Goodreads later?

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 19:39:35 BST
Yes, I am a sensible sort, but no, I don't agree with you. I've been participating on the forum here for 18 months and there was very little discussion about anything to start with. And I think many of the DTB enthusiasts just upped and left when kindle arrived.

Also, I don't think you appreciate how much a couple of us authors worked early on to try and deter over-promotion and fly by posting by authors who didn't actually take part in discussions.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 19:55:21 BST

You're right. Most of us are there. It's very easy to make friends there, isn't it?
Between one thing and another I've been slacking lately, but things are looking up now.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 20:06:53 BST
I'm confused. I was hoping for a political thread. You guys are all non-whigs, right? - ie. anti-'liberal'? Which means you're all neo-cons like my good self? No? I mean the title of this thread couldn't be some sort of typo? Could it? You being writers an' all?

Just wondering....

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 20:18:50 BST
LOL, aonghus, well spotted.

I'll have to have a look at my 'n' key.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 20:22:58 BST
Ethereal says:
Had the same thought myself but being a "sensible reader only" refrained from saying so!

Back on topic, a lot of authors have said they're unused to promotion, but I wonder how much is also an age thing? As an older generation poster, these Amazon forums are the only ones I've participated on so I imagine younger authors will be more savvy about forums and how to promote generally.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 20:28:47 BST
Sorry Mira, but I couldn't resist....

I think younger authors are generally more savvy about self-promotion. Whether being able to promote yourself via twitter, your own blog and on various threads is actually effective - well, that's a different matter entirely.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 20:34:00 BST
Young authors whose target readership are youngsters who spend half their lives on the net can probably find a readership elsewhere. Those of us who write primarily for adult/middle-aged women probably can't. These forums get a fraction of the sales directly but they push the books into amazon's recommendations to other customers. Selling via other platforms won't do that.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 20:53:13 BST
Thanks for taking time out from your discussion fora to tell us about this, Monica.

So, what's good and hot in your life?

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 20:56:50 BST
[Deleted by Amazon on 7 Apr 2012, 17:52:49 BST]

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Sep 2011, 21:07:35 BST
Don't worry about it, aonghus. I probably wouldn't have been able to resist something like that either.



I'm hardly a younger generation but I'm a bit like weed - I thrive on soil disturbance.

Besides, there are problems with readership here anyhow. I'm not saying that everyone is the same but great majority are after cheap books. They buy a lot, devour a lot, move on. Which is fine if you're a mass market writer. But, if you're not, you get bad marks just for falling into wrong hands. Whenever I see a poor review for anyone's book I look at the reviewer's record, and more often than not, s/he's simply strolled into a wrong genre. :-)

To be honest, I prefer selling less but to a better targeted readership.

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 21:29:59 BST
Garscadden says:
I think it's a bit of a mix here, pretty much 50/50 from what I can tell, of people who want dirt cheap books, and don't have any problems with quality, and people who are willing to pay good money for good books.

(I thought getting the common saying wrong was more indicative of talent than the title typo, personally.)

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 22:04:19 BST
lisa says:
Hmm, I haven't been around these parts much recently - been writing/editing a new one. Seems a shame, but as many have already said - inevitable. I imagine a MOA forum will be next. Perhaps we can use our energy to figure out a way to organise it so it doesn't turn into a big messy heap like in the US. Someone called Shannon has been doing some genre specific threads in the US that I think are brilliant. Perhaps we can think of some other ways of making the forum easier to understand, and therefore help the occasional reader who does find their way there.

The Ultimate Choice
Coombe's Wood
My Demon

Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 22:33:44 BST
[Deleted by Amazon on 7 Apr 2012, 17:53:05 BST]

Posted on 19 Sep 2011, 03:23:25 BST
M. White says:
Hey Ali, I have just registered on Goodreads after seeing the comments above. Very user friendly and looks like quite a well-managed and varied site. Check it out and good luck

M White
The Night the Aliens went on Strike
Ashraf Farouk; Tourist Police
Shoehand Spook

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Sep 2011, 06:42:56 BST
Ethereal says:
You don't know for sure it's happened yet.
Plus, once an Authors forum gets underway it may work out differently to the US one, which has to be way bigger.

I understand the disappointment, being hacked off with Amazon and complaining forum readers, but as one of the authors here before kindle took off I'd say you've helped shape the "sensible" side of promotion...why not stay to do the same in the different setup?

If it has "been good while it lasted," why not give a bit back?

Just throwing out a couple of ideas!
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Discussion in:  fiction discussion forum
Participants:  132
Total posts:  7029
Initial post:  18 Sep 2011
Latest post:  29 Mar 2013

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