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Rubbra cheap download

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Showing 26-50 of 128 posts in this discussion
Posted on 3 Apr 2012, 11:02:11 BST
Last edited by the author on 3 Apr 2012, 11:12:49 BST
JayJayDee says:
Just checked again, and it's not the Q3-III that is duplicated, it is Quartet 12-V that appears three times! In any case the download doesn't appear to include Quartet 10, although two tracks are identified as being those two movements.
It needs fixing at their end, and I will now email them again with the correction of the nature of their error!

Good point Geoffrey, but by saying I was being petty, I meant that I double checked the sound bites and track durations with the Amazon download timings! Could have missed it for weeks otherwise! There's a lot of music in there!

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Apr 2012, 16:26:02 BST
JJD - do keep us posted on how you fare with play.com's 'customer service'. My experience to date has not been encouraging.

In reply to an earlier post on 3 Apr 2012, 21:15:05 BST
Roasted Swan says:
I downloaded the Holmboe too with same problem but had not noticed the problems so thanks to JayJayDee for the heads up. Will let you know how helpful the feedback is.

Posted on 3 Apr 2012, 21:46:30 BST
Malx says:
JJD thanks for the warning, thankfully I haven't taken the plunge and downloaded the Holmboe Quartets as yet so await your result with interest. So far anything I have downloaded seems to be fine maybe I've been lucky but I am inclined to check everything before proceeding as you have done.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Apr 2012, 16:59:28 BST
JayJayDee says:
No joy, Roger - after 5 or 6 emails, filling a customer service proforma which duplicated everything I had already told them, and three or four days of unrewarded polite persistence.
At least the other nineteen and a half quartets are good (apart from a number of 'clicks' that I have had to erase with 'Audacity' software!
The music is so good that (of course) I stopped listening for technical hitches when running through them.
Sadly it reminded me of the bad old days of the early 1970s when the excitement of listening to newly purchased vinyl discs was drastically reduced by diverting one's attention to clicks, swishes pops and crackles from the appalling pressings available in that era.

Don't need that.
Fortunately Holmboe still wins. What a magnificent composer, not beautiful, but rigorous and always interesting ... into such advanced years!

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Apr 2012, 18:57:47 BST
Like you, I'm having no joy with Play's complaints system. Alas, I have nothing at all to show for the money I paid over to them - apart from being older and a little wiser I suppose.

Agree entirely with you about the wonderful Holmboe quartet cycle, which I downloaded from Amazon last year. I was puzzled by your reference to the other 19 & 1/2 quartets. There are 22 in total with the two unnumbered quartets (Svaerm and Quartetto Sereno)?

Posted on 6 Apr 2012, 19:34:21 BST
Malx says:
Roger, may I ask: the download of the Holmboe Quartets from Amazon was it clear of defects? If so I think i'll spend the extra and get a download without issues.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Apr 2012, 19:53:34 BST
Malx - yes I had no problems at all with the Holmboe quartets. In any case, I've always found Amazon's customer service excellent if there are any problems.

Amazon downloads do have a lower bitrate than some providers. Sometimes this is noticeable but I can't say I've ever been aware of it when I listen to the Holmboe (though admittedly I've never heard the set on CD).

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Apr 2012, 23:22:58 BST
Last edited by the author on 6 Apr 2012, 23:28:39 BST
JayJayDee says:
Roger, I was counting the no.21 (Sereno)as being unfinished (expertly topped and tailed by Norgard - I believe), and the Svaerm as being really an arrangement of an earlier Duo. Hopefully the maths add up eventually. Haven't listened to Svaerm yet, but already fascinated by many of the quartets. Just the right length to be interesting without becoming unwieldy!

I don't usually get downloads, finding the CDs to be usually of similar price and much better sonic quality. But I made an exception for the Holmboe, and will probably now give Play.Com a miss. Also tired of Amazon's unannounced 206 and 224 kbs. download quality when expecting 320. If the CD versus mp3 download has an information ratio of 1411 : 224 there has to be something fundamental missing - and I do notice it when actively 'listening to' - as distinct from 'hearing' the music. All these years of technological advances are now surely leading us backwards???

Posted on 7 Apr 2012, 09:15:21 BST
JJD: If you want a full discussion of the subject go to the mp3 forum. Briefly, mp3 was developed for use with ipods etc when they had limited capacity. To enable them to store more 'songs', mp3 downloads have a lot of the supposedly non-audible information removed. They then take up about less than half of a CD track (or a 'lossless' download). As the target market was popular music to be listened to through earphones on mp3 players of variable price, sound quality was not much of an issue. As soon as people started listening to downloads of other genres of music on hi-fi the complaints started. We are not going backwards, genuine CD-quality downloads are available in other formats (but not from Amazon).

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2012, 10:04:26 BST
zargb5 says:
yes i have noticed bitrates much lower than so called 320 on Amazon. It's very annoying. There are a few sites out there which offer some full res or even higher than cd res, but in the UK the choice is very limited and the prices are expensive usually more than full price cd. Its a shame the HD tracks downloads aren't available in the UK yet. Now there's a site. I have sent play.com an email about the Holmboe as well - so far just an automated response........

Posted on 7 Apr 2012, 22:46:21 BST
Last edited by the author on 7 Apr 2012, 22:48:02 BST
JayJayDee says:
I have seen that discussion thread and contributed some time ago. Ultimately you pays your money and you takes your choice, I suppose. And many people don't notice the loss at 320 kbs. Len of MusicWeb suggested to me that he rarely noticed any loss and seemed just a little sceptical of my claim to notice the difference. But, even with the onset of increasing tinnitus, I find that a significant proportion of the ambience is missing from mp3 downloads. And the extremes of bass and treble, some of the 'presence' and much of the 'depth' of the recording, and something intangible and hard to define (that people always used to say was missing also from digital as distinct from analogue recordings).

Certainly the more complex the music, the more that is missing. That's why I went for the Holmboe quartets - because the range of timbre of a quartet is more limited than that of a full orchestra. And also because it is the rigour of the argument that is more important in a good quartet than the sheer beauty of sound. All ways of convincing myself that a saving of money was not such a serious loss of information !!
While they cost more I am glad to have opted for the CD versions of the BIS Vanska Sibelius and the BIS Holmboe Symphonies because their recording qualities are so luminous. But in the case of my Play.com download I have a loss of information amounting to an entire quartet lasting nearly 26 minutes.

That is certainly not any kind of approximation to a lossless format. Consensus here appears to be to avoid Play.Com!

Posted on 8 Apr 2012, 23:50:33 BST
zargb5 says:
I've been sent a boloney reply from play.com about sorry for technical issues have you tried using a different server. WTF? have sent another one back saying i'll buy them elsewhere if they cannot be bothered to address the issue.

I have found 320 bitrates on my system has similar characteristics to what you state above. I have compared the same recordings at full res and 320 then 192 and 128. Anything less than full res sounds thinner and more 'metallic' lacks body and a lot of ambient cues disappear including 'energy' I only go for 320 if i have to or the cd version is unaffordable/deleted.

I did a blind test on a friend and he chose the 320 version of a piece over the full res one. he said it sounded cleaner and less cluttered. After listening for a short while this perception quickly wore off.

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 00:22:58 BST
JayJayDee says:
Oh well, they have offered me a refund, but frankly I'd feel much better if my efforts to alert them to the error had resulted in them putting up the proper tracks on their site! I have requested that they might consider to correct the available tracks rather than process the refund.

Amazon must love to see us trashing the performance of a rival/competitor.
I guess I'll eventually accept a refund and use it to invest in the 10th quartet from some other source.

By the way, I have obtained slightly better results by runing these 320 kbs downloads through Audacity software with a steep frequency boost of just 3dB at both 40Hz and 10,000 Hz; but I am acutely aware that I am merely boosting what IS there, rather than recovering what is inevitably missing from the source signal.

All this talk of the medium is detracting me from concentration on the message. As I mention above - this takes me back to the dreaded first listening sessions of hard-earned new vinyls forty years ago when the pressings led me to tear my hair out....well it's gone anyway!

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 08:20:31 BST
Last edited by the author on 9 Apr 2012, 08:24:16 BST
JayJayDee says:
Update... Play.com appear have opted to refund any of us, rather than address the real problem.
I'm not sure if this is good or bad service! It's certainly odd business practice.

<< Dear JJD

Thank you for your email.

We are sorry to hear that you have experienced problem with your recent playdigital order for Holmboe: the complete string quartets.

As a gesture of a goodwill we have refunded the cost of the item on this occasion. Please allow 3 days for this amount to appear on your statements.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you and thank you for your patience and valued custom.

Kind regards

Customer Support Team
Play.com >>

So if you are happy with the idea of the Holmboe Quartets 'less 10th' you might consider to follow the same path !!

Now, can I accept 320 kbs for the denser textures of Rubbra symphonies????

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Apr 2012, 11:04:40 BST
Roasted Swan says:
I am no apologist for Play.com but my guess is they are simply in effect a retail outlet. For sure they should not sell 'faulty' product but conversely it is not reasonable to assume they have the facilities as a shop to correct incorrectly edited/titled files. My experience with the Berglund/Sibelius/COE downloads is that the Amazon files suffer the same error as the Play.com ones which implies some central "wholeseller". Of course they should instantly offer a refund - there's no goodwill involved, if the product is faulty you are entitled to a full refund. My concern is if the continue to sell an item they now know to be faulty. I have to say my other Play.com downloads have been immaculate - the Janowski Ring and the Endres Bax Sonatas superb quality and value. So you win some you loose some - If I get my money back on the Holmboe I'm OK with that if not delighted!

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 14:34:20 BST
I have just listened to Beethoven Symphony No 6, another download from play.com (part of the Rise of the Masters series) and tracks 3 - 5 played seamlessly. So far the glitch with Sibelius 2 has been the only problem I have had with their downloads, it is still annoying though.

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 15:04:43 BST
Malx says:
Geoffrey: please forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought the Rise Of The Masters series was exclusive to Amazon, I had a quick look on Play.com and couldn't see it but as we know their search facility can be irksome at times.

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 16:07:05 BST
Malx: You are right, I am getting my suppliers mixed up! The Wagner/Die Walkure/Janowski I bought was from play.com and that was fine (as Nick also found).

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Apr 2012, 16:31:43 BST
Roasted Swan says:
Malx, I think you are right - I can't find this series on Play at all. One of the Amazon/"Rise of the Masters" series is Debussy which includes most of the superb Ogawa/BIS complete piano music cycle. This is exceptionally fine playing and engineering. Just to add to your woe the actual complete BIS cycle (nominally a 6 CD set) is another of Play.com's £6.99 exceptional bargains at 320 kps rates!

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 16:44:51 BST
Malx says:
Nick: In light of all the previous comments I wonder how complete Play.com's BIS set is! Is there a significant difference between the Amazon and the Play.com offer?

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Apr 2012, 16:56:48 BST
Roasted Swan says:
I checked that most scientific of things - a track count and both the Amazon & Play.com sets contain 101 tracks. Of course one cannot guarantee the contents...... I was wondering in the light of the Holmboe/Da Capo debacle it might be worth e-mailing the record company direct to see if they would supply the missing tracks in the name of good PR. One has proof of purchase. On Amazon the download (which won't be at 320 kps) is £26.99 - Play.com is £6.99 although the tracks seem to be jumbled up and might take a bit of time to re-order into the original CD order. For £20.00 and better bit rates I'll do that! As mentioned the Amazon/"Rise of..." version includes about 70 Ogawa tracks for £6.49 but can be bought as part of the 2 for a tenner promotion.

Posted on 9 Apr 2012, 17:07:45 BST
Malx says:
Nick: when I downloaded the complete Shostakovich symphonies from Play.com the tracks appeared to be all over the place but when I moved them into Windows Media Player they sorted themselves out into the correct order, very handy.

Posted on 10 Apr 2012, 14:41:43 BST
Last edited by the author on 10 Apr 2012, 14:48:02 BST
JayJayDee says:
The other way to re-order the tracks is to move the cursor along the fields at the head of your downloaded set, and click on Tracks. That automatically re-orders them as per the track order from the original CD set. Possibly not in the numerical sequence of symphonies; but at least with all works' movements in consecutive order.
Most likely windows media player gives priority to the track 'order' rather than the downloading sequence....
The ongoing problem with most mp3 downloads is, of course, the bloomin' split second gaps between tracks. With modern download speeds from the internet and hard drive storage size improvements I see no reason for the continuation of anything under 320 kbs, except maybe via Internet Radio.

Posted on 11 Apr 2012, 21:13:35 BST
zargb5 says:
For those unlucky enough to download the Holmboe complete 4tets from play.com - the missing 4tet no 10 can be downloaded from presto classical for £2.58. Itunes and amazon have it listed on their complete 4tets but only if you buy the whole album.

The link is http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Dacapo/8207001

It's very shoddy of play even at such a low price - and they haven't altered the listing/download which is even worse. Still if you get the play version then make it up with the presto 10 you're still getting the set at 320kbps for just under a tenner.
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Total posts:  128
Initial post:  22 Mar 2012
Latest post:  8 Aug 2012

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