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For Lust of Knowing: The Orientalists and Their Enemies Paperback – 25 Jan 2007

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Robert Irwin (Author)
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Robert Irwin (Author)
4.5 out of 5 stars 11 customer reviews
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Product details

  • Paperback: 416 pages
  • Publisher: Penguin; 1st Edition edition (25 Jan. 2007)
  • Language: English
  • ISBN-10: 0140289232
  • ISBN-13: 978-0140289237
  • Product Dimensions: 19.6 x 13 x 2.8 cm
  • Average Customer Review: 4.5 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (11 customer reviews)
  • Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 418,768 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

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Product Description

About the Author

Robert Irwin is a publisher and writer of fiction and non-fiction. His works of non-fiction include The Arabian Nights, Islamic Art, Night & Horses & the Desert and The Alhambra.

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4.0 out of 5 starsThey did it for knowledge's sake
By Gerard Noonan on 8 Aug. 2009
Format: Paperback
Irwin seeks to refute the thesis, propounded most vehemently by Edward Said, that orientalism, the study of Islamic society from historical, sociological, cultural and other points of view, was/is the handmaiden of Western imperialism in the Middle East. Far from being imperialistically-minded, Irwin argues that orientalist scholars were/are motivated merely by a lust for knowing. Given the influence of religion in Europe (and indeed the world over) until quite recently, it is unsurprising to discover that curiosity regarding the Middle East was originally motivated by a desire to add background detail to the Bible stories: where exactly was Mount Sinai?; how did people live during biblical times? etc. With the rise of secularism, orientalist studies continued to justify themselves as straightforward scholarship. Irwin denies that there was a sinister relationship between orientalists and European imperialism. Academic pedants with little interest in contemporary matters, the majority of Orientalists had little connection with imperialism. Strikingly, those who did interest themselves in colonialism tended to oppose it in solidarity with Arab peoples: As Irwin writes, `There has been a marked tendency for Orientalists to be anti-imperialists, as their enthusiasm for Arab or Persian or Turkish culture often went hand in hand with a dislike of seeing those people defeated and dominated by the Italians, Russians, British or French' (p. 204). Such anti-imperialists included Leone Caetani, Edward Granville Browne, Louis Massignon, Jacques Berque, Vincent Monteil, and Claude Cahen, to name just a few.Read more ›
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4.0 out of 5 stars... a very detailed historical review of a subject of great contemporary importance but sadly one that is little understood ...
By Dr. B. E. Kelly on 6 Jun. 2016
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase
This is a very detailed historical review of a subject of great contemporary importance but sadly one that is little understood in the west. Gerard Noonan gives a very fair and comprehensive review above, and this should be consulted first if you are interested in reading this work. For the most part, I found it very absorbing, although it must be stated it covers a very long period and a wide scholarly terrain, and I sometimes felt I was in the desert without a map. The author clearly thought this necessary to do his demolition work on Edward Said, which he does very effectively. I was interested to read that Said, though raised as a Presbyterian (a rare affiliation for an Arab), was an avowed secularist with a hatred for religion, especially Islam, and he was entirely blindsided by the rise of Islamic fundamentalism since the 1970s. All the same, this highly informative book covers a lot more than a refutation of Said's 'Orientalism', as it presents a kaleidoscope of brilliant and often eccentric scholars. The style is very readable and there a good few laugh out loud moments. Islam is of course the presenting issue, as the unifying factor in Arab, Turkish and Persian cultures, but it would have been interesting to read here something as well on the Christian and Jewish minorities who are just as much a part of 'the Orient' and who predate Islam by centuries.
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5.0 out of 5 starsDemolishes the Orientalists Poistion
By Sophocles on 8 Dec. 2008
Format: Paperback
The absurd one-star review of this brilliant book should not be allowed to stand as Amazon's only review. Superbly reviewed by the Guardian and the Telegraph, by the Spectator and the Independent, and by dozens of others across the world, this is a fair and balanced, rich and passionate defence of those from the Western tradition who have sought to understand the Orient. It demolishes Said's discredited thesis and provides a masterly analysis of the subject. It is a worthy companion to Ibn Warraq's Defending the West.
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5.0 out of 5 starsAbsolutely brilliant ...
By Saumacus on 29 April 2006
Format: Hardcover
... and hilarious! Mr. Irwin has authored several novels, and, no doubts, his non-fiction writing has only been improved by that.

So far, I found just a couple of rather strange ... aberrations? (I guess it is appropriate to use that word for a book populated by so many eccentrics). Mr. Irwin writes (pp. 19-20), "For reasons that remain misterious, the new conquerors [i.e., Arabs] were referred to in the earliest Latin sources either as 'Hagarenes' or as 'Saracens'." I've always thought there's nothing misterious about that: it's an old tradition of calling an ethnos by a name or place known to classical authors, or by a legendary ancestor. Hagar was mother of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Arabs, hence Hagarians. Saraceni were nomads mentioned by the late Greek authors, so here you go ...

Another example (p. 181): "It always rankled with [Edward] Palmer that he did not succeed to [William] Wright's professorship when the latter died." Something isn't right here. Palmer was murdered in 1882, Wright was succeeded by their mutual friend William Robertson Smith after Wright's death in 1889. With all Orientalists' eccentricity, it seems rather unusual for Palmer to be irritated by a fact that his friend and colleague outlived him.

Despite these minor editorial omissions, I wish could give more than five stars to this book.

As for the sad case of Said's "Orientalism," Mr. Irwin yet again "tore that book to pieces," which, naturally, will have no effect on Said's admirers. As any critique never had and never will on supporters of the "Black Athena," or on believers in the less known here in the West so called "New Chronology."
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Most Recent Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5 starsModern scholarship at its best

A highly readable and staggeringly erudite book which demonstrates a number of interrelated theses: (1) the study of Arabic, Persian and the Middle East" was a highly eccentric... Read more

Published 3 months ago by Bardolf
5.0 out of 5 starsTimely, entertaining, informative and true

Scholarly yet highly readable, and an important and timely assertion of traditional enlightenment values in the context of the general, widespread and unthinking adoption of the... Read more

Published 14 months ago by eiamjw
4.0 out of 5 starsExcellent & entertaining survey

A wonderful overview of a fascinating field of knowledge and the skirmishes and disputes between scholars from a vast range of traditions and perspectives. Read more

Published 18 months ago by WH Humphreys
4.0 out of 5 starsFour Stars

Great counterweight to postmodernist and 'orientalist' critiques.

Published 20 months ago by Peter Pan
4.0 out of 5 starsExcellent!

Delivery time a little late, despite additional cost, but the book was brand new and will take pride of place on my bookshelf. Read more

Published 22 months ago by Andrew Mottram
4.0 out of 5 starsA Useful Antidote

I think this useful and interesting book should be read by anyone with a broad interest in Asian, particularly Middle Eastern history. Read more

Published on 25 Jun. 2011 by S. Smith
5.0 out of 5 starsSuperb distillation of arguments

Superb distillation of arguments in favour of a profound western fascination for the orient, utterly absorbing, penetrating, entering deeply into its subject, an intellectual... Read more

Published on 25 Jan. 2010 by Lightcavalryman

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