they don't make westerns like they used to... why not? surely we have some actors today who could be on a par with the likes of John Wayne, Gregory Peck, Robert Mitchum even Kevin Costner was a success in Dances with wolves.

I feel you. I almost wrote a script for a Western called Stoneyground, but I abandoned it because I knew there would be no interest in it.

Perhaps because so many were made in the past that directors feel that it's old hat now.

Also attitudes have changed somewhat and knowledge of the actual history of the wild west is fairly widely known now. In the majority of old westerns the American Natives (Indians) were always the bad guys and the Europeans the good guys. It's now widely accepted that this was in fact not the case; that the American Natives had their land taken from them, were pushed onto dreadful reservations and were double crossed as to treaties by Governments of the time; so the precept of old fashioned westerns no longer stands up. Therefore writers and directors need to come at it from a different angel e.g. Dances with Wolves, Cold Mountain or even Brokeback Mountain, or the 'Spaghetti Westerns' with Clint Eastwood. Also, perhaps nobody is writing any decent Western set novels now?

they all got made and all the thesps that were in them are now in the great saloon in the sky. Yeehaa!!

As a genre it just ran out of space. The west was eventually won and the lack of films or TV series has resulted in entire generations growing up without knowledge or interest in them. They still make them, but like the recent Jesse James film, they don't have an audience. Still, we have DVDs to remind us of the great days.

Im new to westerns so ive just bought the dollars trilogy

Many years ago, my final years' thesis was on the Western. The problem for the Western, is that it's so often been used as an allegory for US foreign policy, when being anti-American in the Hollywood Establishment, was a strict no-no. Nowadays, that's changed somewhat, but more importantly, you can actually make a film, TV drama etc about Iraq, and actually film it there - no need to hide it behind a facade. Also, what westerns you do get now, are exactly that: typical horse-operas e.g. 3.10 to Yuma - no studio is willing to risk the political correctness issue regarding Native Americans by reverting to the old Cowboys and Indians (or Mexicans) pics of yesteryear: there were endless disputes when Michael Mann was making Last of The Mohicans with unionised native Americans, and Disney came a real cropper with The Alamo re-make - they had to re-write so many times to make everyone look sympathetic, the film had no balls at all.

Finally of course, though the American Frontier was only officially declared 'closed' just over 100 years ago, most Americans are urbanised, and have totally forgotten their frontier heritage. Which is a shame.

NAA

I would not wish to compare Steven Seagal with the likes of John Wayne etc, but his 1997 film Fire Down Below, although on the surface a typical Seagal action film, is very similar in nature to the typical western of the 1950s. Just substitute big business illegally dumping toxic waste in place of say the aggressive large ranch and you've got Fire Down Below.

L-P - know what you mean - I always thought HEAT wasn't so much an action heist movie, as an action 'western' - gangs & shootouts, and Good men vs Bad men and the great relationship between the lawman & the outlaw. To get pretentious, I also think Mann has the same appreciation for the urban American landscape ('canyons of skyscarapers' etc.), as John Ford had for the frontier one.

Oh, and to get back to the original Q - where have they all gone ? What do people think of 'Last Samurai' ?

It seems to me that none of you have seen NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. that is the real wild west at it's most deadliest.

There's been a few, I agree not enough. Open Range BRILLIANT!, 3.10 to yuma, Appaloosa.
But yes, we need more Tombstone's and Wyatt Earp's
Graham

One always crops up from time to time, a good western, that is. However, there is a plethera of old(ish) westerns out there that can be viewed, more than one thinks. Also, there is an awful lot of truely bad ones, so quality rather than quantity is the order of the day. " Mountain Man" with Robert Redford and "The Culpepper Cattle Company" are two old ones that I would recommend to anyone.

The reason Westerns are no longer produced by the 'entertainment' industry has nothing to do with lack of actors or scripts. The deeper reason is that in depicting the Old West, these films inevitably have to show the conquest of native races by white colonists who, dispite being outnumbered; were ultimately victorious due to their racial unity and fighting superiority. Since the 1960's the white territories of the World have been thrown open by their ruling elites; to immigration/colonization by these same 'third world' races on a massive scale. The native white peoples being encouraged by the mass media/advertising industries to accept, mix and interbreed peacefully with these third world colonists.
In such circumstances, it would be highly counterproductive to the establishment of the 'multi-racial paradise' promised; to produce Westerns depicting an earlier episode of inter-ethnic colonisation to the America's, with all the Darwinian conflict, slaughter and misery this ultimately brought to the native peoples. The historical parrallels between the situation facing the native Indian tribes of the 1800's and that facing the divided, demoralised white peoples of today are simply too obvious not to be noticed. Hence the western, dispite being popular, has gone 'out of fashion' with our politically correct entertainment industry..

What about Appaloosa, Commanche Moon, Last Stand at Sabre River, Lonesome Dove series including the two TV series featuring the character of Newt ,Open Range, Broken Trail Etc ? All exceptionally good.

I think the myth has been exploded. The enemy in the old Westerns were native Americans and they are no longer seen in the same light. The cold war films with Russian enemy agents aren't made any more either. Times and attitudes change, although the stories remain the same. Just different baddies.
Cut Short (DI Geraldine Steel)

I don't totally agree with the people who say westerns are no longer made because of the modern view of how native Americans were treated and portrayed because although this may be true of typical US Cavalry movies many of the all-time classic westerns were either white versus white eg SHANE and HIGH NOON or sympathetic to non-whites eg MAGNIFICENT SEVEN and more recently DANCES WITH WOLVES. Also, the moral ambiguities of the gunslinger were beautifully addressed in Clint Eastwood's UNFORGIVEN. The moral 'certainties' of John Wayne movies belong to another era.

I personally believe it is just more of a fad thing. The love of firearms is now more fashionably celebrated in gun-porn like 'Taken' and 'Mr & Mrs Smith.' Slow-motion adverts for Smith & Wesson and Uzi are easy to fetishise with CGI and glamorous 'stars.'

However, all genres are a lot different now than they were 50 years ago, (instead of psychological horror and ghost stories we have 'Hostel' and its ilk catering for blase teenagers and incipient sadists and psychopaths.) And so the western must adapt to survive. I think it is still possible to make a good western today but the Hollywood suits think it doesn't appeal to their presumed 'demographic.'

Someone else mentioned NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. I would second that as an excellent take on the modern western. I would add to that Tommy Lee Jones's self-directed movie THE THREE BURIALS OF MELQUIADES ESTRADA. It has the feel of a western while being set in present day rural Texas and Mexico. Like UNFORGIVEN, it shows the real effects of gunfire and how lives are never the same again while also illuminating the importance of friendship. This brilliant and thoughtful movie was a critical success but box-office poison so maybe the suits are right. But if you like intelligent moviemaking, first-class acting and direction the don't delay... buy or rent THE THREE BURIALS OF MELQUIADES ESTRADA. You won't be sorry!

I think that possibly Westerns aren't that fashionable at the moment, and also how Hollywood seem to being going at the moment if they brought out a new one it would probably be just a remake.

let's face it - there are probably only 2 plots in all the western films we've ever watched - that doesn't mean they're not good but we probably don't need any more. all you really need is
Shane
High Noon
Fistful of Dollars or Few Dollars More
Butch Cassidy & Sundance Kid
Son of Paleface
Blazing Saddles
and you've got it covered

I used to love a good Western, but I read somewhere years ago that the Vietnam War put paid to them. Personally I cannot think why, but that was the reason given. It was the start of a new type of movie - none for the better I might add.

Can't believe no-one has mentioned Louis L'Amour.

Who is also, I believe, sippin' whiskey in the "great saloon in the sky".

Western novels are still being written and published in the USA lots by detective writers ie Robert B Parker,Loren D Estleman. TV Westerns still appear from time to time and Kevin Costner is,at present,looking at another TV or film one with Robert Duval again. Tom Selleck and Sam Elliott are about the only ones still making Westerns from time to time for TV. Costs are too high now and the interest is really with older people ie me and you who remember the good films although they were a fiction version of the West. The stories are all written and filmed. Deadwood on TV was new approach to the subject. The african/american cowboys were written out of both TV and film. Good book on their history The Negro Cowboys:Durham and Jones 1965 Univ of Nebraska Press/Bison Book paperback

the modern western seems too real too muddy - murky, it always seems to be raining - i seem to agree with a lot of what has been said previously but if you look at the history from what i percieve to be the first 'real' western the virginian circa 1929 to the first sort of adult ones, High Noon and my favourite of all time Shane, along with an awful lot of forgotten great westerns, with people like Dick Powell and Ray Milland Hollywood as usual overdid the golden goose and now is frightened to upset anyone, apart from us English of course. i just think we've balanced out -there are a great many westerns around, just not advertised as much - must admit i'd like to have seen more films about the Eastern nations and the major battle they had, must be a film there somewhere

It seems that every time someone does risk making a western, it generally has a positive review, and invariably includes the title "The return of the western?".
But it never does.
Shame Kevin Costner's ruled himself out of doing the Dances With Wolves sequel.

Soiled Dove If you want a new angle on the western, try reading my book. Its thought provoking, a little off the wall, but an old fashion western with a new twist. And it would transfer to the silver screen real well, epic style. Just up Costner's street. Michael Kennard