........they dumped all this nonsense a about virgin birth and the transfiguration stuff and all the other unbelievable toot and stuck with the good stuff Jesus came out with like loving each other.

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie ... if only you knew what you were suggesting ... I am not sure which other 'stuff' you are talking about but going on what you have suggested it is obvious you have no concept of how important the virgin birth is ... if Jesus was not born of a Virgin he can not be God, and if he is not God then he can not sinless, and if he is not sinless he can not offer himself up as an faultless lamb of God and if he does not offer himself up as a faultless lamb of God there can be no redemption of mankind ... and if there is no redemption it means 'hi-ho hi-ho it's off to hell we go' ... so the straight answer to your new age suggestion of 'why can't we all just get along' is a big fat NO we can not 'dump all this nonsense' but I will agree we need allot more of the love of Jesus in the world ... including myself, I need to give more love and receive it as well

Boom-chicka-wah-waaah!

Thank God for the ignore function on this site ... LOL ... it is a beautiful thing

I was walking back from the shops today when I was stopped by a Evangelist freak who asked me if I knew what it felt like to have a prayer answered.
Before I could say anything, his phone rang and he walked away and, I'll be honest, it felt pretty good.

Hi Michael

Nothing in the Bible can be 'dumped' obviously, we agree on that. What and how it is interpreted, that can be argued upon. But I don't want to argue with you about any interpretation, I would like to know why you think that:

a) Jesus was THE God Himself, when He said He was His son and He made it clear that some things are known only by the Father.

b) why wouldn't He be able to be the son of God and sinless, unless He was born of a Virgin (literally)?

c) what do you understand by 'hell' ?

Thank you.

Hi Michael and Gabriela. Surely a whole load of scripture has already been dumped as more evidence has come to light of chosen texts being included and others rejected when the Bible was compiled so no, we cannot agree on that.
To answer
a) That is an easy cop out when you find a passage that just does not make sense.
b) No that does not make sense either, reproduction is not a sin.
c) hell exists only in the mind. It was big in the middle ages when we were all a lot less educated and obviously still exists in you minds but not in mine.
You're gonna hafta come up with something a lot more persuasive than that because you are just repeating misconceptions.
Thats what keeps me unconvinced.

Sorry, Charlieost, I didn't come up with anything really, and I am not trying to convince you of anything, I only asked Michael 3 questions, because I would like to know how he answers those questions and I would like to know what he thinks, that's all.

Charlie ...
Please provide scripture for your belief that 'hell is only in the mind' ... if that is the case it is no wonder you want to dump a whole lot of scriptures and just love one another as there are hundreds of scriptures which directly speak of a real place of hell ... Jesus preached more about this real place hell than he did about heaven ... study it and see for yourself ...

GMS
Hell is a real place reserved for those who have rejected God's provision of salvation in the finished work on the cross which Jesus Christ died for us ... it is by faith in Jesus and him alone that a man can be saved ... for further info about hell and people who have been to hell please go to www.spiritlessons.com ... also watch Bill Wiese ... 23 minutes in hell on google ...

Michael

"it is by faith in Jesus and him alone that a man can be saved"

so all Buddhists and Muslims and Hindu will go to Michael's hell...

"Jesus preached more about this real place hell than he did about heaven... study it and see for yourself ..."

With all due respect for your name, Michael, you study it, Christ preached about the * Kingdom of Heaven *, the one that is IN YOU, according to His own words, not about hell (even if He may have mentioned it here and there). He was bringing good news, not bad news; mercy, not punishment. You are doing exactly the opposite in His name.

Gabriela v Michael

Excellent!!!! - somebody should sell tickets

GMS
You are making the constant error people make who want to live in denial ... That is choosing the parts of scripture they like and deny the reality of other scriptures so as to get away from the truth being taught ... enclosed you will find 'some' scriptures of hell .. this is not an exhaustive list but if you will be honest you will see Jesus constantly warned everyone of the reality of hell.

The question often arises, How could a loving God commit his creation to such a horrible place of punishment? This question has given way to all kinds of perverted interpretations of Scripture. First of all, it must be pointed out that God is not only loving; he is just. And he is holy. The fact is, "all have sinned" and, therefore, deserve punishment -- apart form Jesus Christ. It was by our own choice that we failed to keep his commandments. The Father has gone out of his way to show us the Truth -- through creation (Rom. 1), in His Word, and by His Son.
God sends no one to hell; anyone who goes there, goes by choice. God is merciful. But he is also just. "Behold therefore the goodness and the severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness..." (Rom. 11:22)

CONT.

GMS - CONT.

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
"fire"
Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire"
Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation"
Mark 3:29
"hell fire"
Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation"
Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell"
Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation"
John 5:29
"furnace of fire"
Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched"
Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched"
Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not"
Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth"
Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth"
Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments"
Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame"
Luke 16:24
"place of torment"
Luke 16:28
"outer darkness"
Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment"
Matt 25:46

Just look how the Bible warns of the eternity and permance of hell!

everlasting fire -
Matthew18:8, 25:41
everlasting punishment -
Matthew 25:46
everlasting chains -
Jude 1:6
eternal damnation -
Mark 3:29
eternal judgment -
Hebrews 6:2
eternal fire -
Jude 1:7
unquenchable fire -
Matthew 3:12
the fire that never shall be quenched -
Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
fire unquenchable -

Luke 3:17
mist of darkness is reserved for ever -
2 Peter 2:17
the blackness of darkness for ever -
Jude 1:13

I'm downright amazed to see how people like MJ and GMS who both claim to have a have a direct line to God, yet receive different messages.
I've already drawn my own conclusions.

SH
If you use constant laws of interpretation of the word of God you will find the will of God is perfectly clear with no confusions. It is when people add or subtract from the word of God or do not use constant laws of interpretation that things become confusing.

Are you saying that God's word is not clear? And you have the correct interpretation?
How do you know that GMS has not God's true words?

As a Christian duty, you should show GMS the error of her ways with your words of God's truth.

Your reply;

"If you use constant laws of interpretation of the word of God you will find the will of God is perfectly clear with no confusions. It is when people add or subtract from the word of God or do not use constant laws of interpretation that things become confusing."

Could you give a demonstration of your quote. So that an outside impartial observer can detect between you and GMS, as to who is speaking the truth?

SH
Please read the post carefully before you respond, my previous post is very clear.

The revelation of God will is revealed in God's word, the bible, to ensure we do not get into false doctrine or heresy there are set laws of interpretation called hermeneutics which ensure we do not get miss lead by people claiming they have seen or heard from God when what they are saying is contrary to the revealed will of God in the word of God. The will of God is not confusing as long as you use the laws of interpretation to ensure you do not get mislead by deceived and deceiving people.

I'll ask you again MJ.
You claim to speak the truth.
GMS claims to speak on behalf of God.
Both of you differ to a wide degree.

Your latest quote;
"The revelation of God will is revealed in God's word, the bible, to ensure we do not get into false doctrine or heresy there are set laws of interpretation called hermeneutics which ensure we do not get miss lead by people claiming they have seen or heard from God when what they are saying is contrary to the revealed will of God in the word of God. The will of God is not confusing as long as you use the laws of interpretation to ensure you do not get mislead by deceived and deceiving people."

This quote seems perhaps to an impartial observer to appear as applicable to both YOU and GMS!
Which of you is DEMONSTRATIVELY correct?
Which of you is the heretic?

Michael

"WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
"fire"
Matt 7:19"

I've checked your first example and that was enough. That's not what Jesus Christ says about 'hell', that is what you, Michael James, say about 'hell'. He has not even mentioned the word in this example.

The full passage is:

"A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

I don't see the word 'hell', I don't see the word 'human being', I don't see the word 'people', I don't see the word 'sinners' .... I don't see anywhere Christ's explanation of what 'hell' is, nor do I see His explanation of what 'fire' is, or that the fire in which the tree with no good fruits will end up, should be 'hell', a real place where a real fire will burn you forever (I suppose you'd die pretty soon if a fire were to burn you, I don't think you would last 'forever', the fire may last 'forever' but you would die soon enough.)

What I * do * see is that He talks about a * tree * that does not bear good fruit to be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Oh...yes .... and I see also that He talks about false prophets.

Michael James

'it is obvious you have no concept of how important the virgin birth is'

How do you square this statement and its importance to Christians, with the problem that the 'virgin birth' story is predicated on a mistranslation from the Greek? In other words, a vital part of the Christian story appears to be based not in fact, but in a myth which arose in order to bolster the credibility of the early church around the second century.

Also, of course, the Gospels of Mark and John do not make reference to Jesus' birth, and, therefore, Mary's virgin status, yet Mark in particular is considered to be the earliest of the gospels and the most accurate, with the others largely based on it. How can you, therefore, believe in something which has such clear inconsistencies in it?

Michael

1.

why wouldn't He be able to be the son of God and sinless, unless He was born of a Virgin (literally)?

2.

"it is by faith in Jesus and him alone that a man can be saved"

so all Buddhists and Muslims and Hindu will go to Michael's hell...?

You have not answered these questions, Michael.

DG
stick to the word of God and don't give us your 'de vince code' rubbish ... the bible is the most accurate and reliable documented piece of history on the planet ... your baseless and dumb accusations just proved your stupidity ...
Let me ask you this ... there is no proof that matter can come from nothing and there is no proof that inanimate objects can 'spring' to life how do you account for such huge inconsistencies and violations of scientific logic? just like me you choose to believe one report over another I choose to stick with God and his word you choose darwin and dawkins ... you 'believe' in evolution and your atheist doctrines as much as I believe the bible and then you claim I and the religious one LOL what a joke .... looks like another ignore function is in order

GSM
1.
it is not my hell, hell was created by God as punishment for satan and his fallen angels, now man has fallen also he also will go there if he rejects God's provision of salvaton through Jesus Christ ... this is basic stuff for someone who 'claims to hear God' why are you not hearing what is in his word? unless you are not hearing God voice and are listening to seducing spirits and giving heed to doctrines of demons ... its right there in the bible you should try reading it some time
2.
Jesus could not be sinless if he had an earthly father as the sinful nature is past from father to child, in other words if you have an earthly father you have a nature of sin ... Jesus did not have an earthly father he was an act of creation in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit, he therefore was sinless at birth and was the same as Adam when he was created but Adam was tempted and gave into the temptation and so died spiritually (God had given Adam the authority and so held him accountable even though eve also gave into the temptation) and the sin nature entered man, so now sin is pasted from father to child regardless ... Jesus was also tempted but he did not give into sin and therefore He qualified to be the blameless lamb of God ... now do you see how important the virgin birth is to the story of the redemption of man

3.
YES every one that has heard the message of God's provision of salvation through Jesus Christ and rejects this salvation will go to hell ... those who have not heard the message of salvation through Jesus Christ in Romans it says they will be judged according to their conscience where God has written his own law on their hearts, that is why you do not need to tell a child it is wrong to hit some one else because the moment they do it they know it is wrong ... it is based on this law which God has written in every persons heart that those who have not heard the message of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ will be judged ...