Message to J Harton - We have had numerous discussions involving irrelevant interlopers. Regular contributors to these threads get annoyed when a book like the above is added to numerous discussions regardless of the subject. The above book is not a chunky classic, a future classic, a Rising Star nor suitable for 17 up to name a few. In fact this practice is counter productive as many of us use the 'ignore' button which means that if you do have anything worthwhile to contribute chances are no-one will read it.

Sorry to everyone else about the rant, but it had to be done.

Well said! Sometimes blatant self promotion really annoys me and I do end up 'ignoring' those people as you suggest. I don't mind at all if it is relevant to the discussion thread, but in the majority of cases it isn't. :)

The term "Irrelevant Interlopers" would imply that the writer thinks that the Amazon forum is some sort of private gentleman's club for "Regular Contributors" only. Well, it's not and if people want to contribute then they have a perfect right to do so. Read what you want to read and use you ignore button, but don't try to discourage someone from making a contribution simply because they are the occasional "irrelevant interloper". Live and let live, it's a free country (at the moment at least)

Have you seen the posting that prompted my response? The fact is that this is not a contribution just a plug for a book that has nothing to do with the subjects under discussion. There are many discussion threads available which set out to encourage debut authors to promote their books together with people asking for recomendations in which this book would be relevant. In a discussion involving classic novels for example, this book is irrelevant and adds nothing. I am not all suggesting that this is a sort of private gentleman's club, apart from anything else I am female, of course anyone is free to contribute but, this same book, using the same words has been added to at least 12 discussions that I am aware of.

puzzling because it doesn't appear to be the author doing the plugging and in almost every case it has been an irrelevant contribution, sometimes unsuitable i think. worth a mention because they're not simply "occasional" but i think probably Travelman's suggestion is best - click ignore (or give a negative tick every time you see it or report it)

I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that J Harton and Jack Blade (or whatever it is) are one and the same. And that at least two of the three contributors to the book's discussion topic below (J Harton's) review are closely linked - Ms M C Mackenzie and M Mackenzie. Not inconceivable either, that M Mackenzie and J Harton have met. Now - I'm sure it's difficult to find your feet as an author, and self-promotion has to be a vital tool in that process, but the almost omnipresent ads for the book are a little irritating. If they are worded differently each time and only used in threads that are pertinent, then I'm sure they would be far more effective.

All I ask of a self-promoting author is a post which goes something like this:

'Hello, my name is y, I'm the author of book x. It is about z and w, and should appeal to you if you've enjoyed books a and b because it shares with them the qualities of j and k. You can read Chapters 1 and 2 on my website at www whatever co uk to get a feel for my themes and style.'

In short, to be treated like a discerning individual rather than some easily duped sheep. Is that too much to ask? I think not. You respect me as a reader, I respect you as a writer and give you the same chance I give everyone else; if you don't respect me as a reader, well... I'll never be your reader.

[Deleted by the author on 13 Nov 2009 21:27 GMT]

To all those who kindly contributed to this issue - my thanks and humblest apologies if it somehow disturbed the equilibrium of your lives. If I were marketing or promoting this work then I suspect there are much more effective means of doing so... this was not meant to induce "duped sheep" to do anything or assume the average IQ in these forums is so low that people will obey an edict simply beause it is written - It is merely an alert about a book which is quite unusual and hard to categorise in a similar manner to, say, 'Catcher In The Rye' [therefore might be of interest to those who are bright enough to share their thoughts, opinions and literary perspectives with others].
The only issue / criticism I feel to be valid is not participating to forums in a specifically prescribed manner which certain individuals clearly feel has to be undertaken as they themselves designate or expect - but remember.. these are PUBLIC forums which anyone can contribute to in a manner THEY deign to be appropriate [otherwise there would be specified guidelines which, if not followed, would result in banning or removal from].
I did the graphic design of the novel and allocated a section of my web domain to the work - The Publishing Company is small and seems to have done no promotion resulting in the fan base trying to plug it here and there... not for profit but because we all felt it was a worthy piece of work that has had a significant impact on ALL those who have read it [including many teenagers since it deals with being young and the issues which manifest during that period of one's life].
As to what Forums / Niches the novel itself fits into... well, one would probably have to read it to designate what it is or is not appropriate to be added to [It was Nominated as Best Novel in the 2009 Costa Booki Awards... so it probably has some intrinsic merit if these type of things are a reflection of quality of work.] and was certainly appropriate to the categories I posted in based on the feedback from the website.
Whilst you have every right to complain or voice dissent [as we like to belive is a stable foundation of all Free Societies], It might be worth remembering that your posts, like mine, are no more than your own opinions and NOT necessarily what these PUBLIC Forums are designed to do [no matter how proprietorially correct you believe your perspective to be]!
None the less, thanks for taking then time to voice your opinions [despite the fact that you could potentialy have spent the same time examining the book itself as over half of it is freely available on the internet.. or creating something of our own].
I do have to voice my thanks to 'Travelman' for his singular voice of reason and astute assessment of what these PUBLIC Forums represent.
I took the time to respond to this forum becuase everyone here took the time to create a thread and contribute their opinions - whether I agree with your perspectives or not.
If anyone does not like what I have to say / post then simply use the IGNORE button but do not try and monopolise this Amazon service as an extention or reflection of your own personal demands for PUBLIC Forum etiquette.
My thanks for the constructive criticisms which have been noted and will certainly taken into consideration.

J - on these, as you call them, public forums we can barely move for plugs (which is why most of my time that is not spent creating writing of my own I pass on a reading forum whose mod squad sees to it that advertising goes under the heading advertising). My post at least wasn't directed at you as such; it was directed towards the trend which sadly renders these forums nigh on unusable.

Think of a bookstore where every member of the public is at liberty to re-shelve the entire collection according to their own personal organisational whims... no one would ever find anything.

Public or no, forums should operate under common sense and respect for other users; I don't believe these to be a matter of perspective. If the majority of users are annoyed with the persistent minority who insists on advertising the same book left right and centre without telling us why it's relevant to the discussion or any good as a novel, that should be respected.

Public or no, the benchmark should be this: would you be banned by every modded forum in the land for doing x? If so, chances are it's not a very polite thing to do on a public forum either. Just because no one has the power to kick users off doesn't mean the behaviour of all users is equally acceptable.

I don't believe it's my duty to research a book which is being advertised in a manner I find taxing; if anything, it's the duty of the person connected with the book, author or no, to tell me in their post why I should be interested in reading it. Incidentally, if you are (and you are!) connected with a publication in any way, it is only honest, decent and respectful to tell people this on your review, particularly as it is the only one of the product available.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: as an artist, I'd rather cut off my own hands than follow the aforementioned advertising trend. Moreover if any fan, friend or family member tried doing so on my behalf, I'd give them a thick earlet.

BJ,
No-one expects that it is 'Your Duty' to research a post, any more than finding an advert being placed on public transportation demands that one investigates the product.
A short simple 5 line notification is less intrusive that the lengthy diatribe that would potentially be required to explain why any novel is so great that it is worth reading - that way if it doesn't interest you, then one continues to the next post.
Public forums are public [and these are public - provided and happily utilised by Amazon because they generate discussion and increase sales - FACT!] and we all have things we personally like or dislike in the public domain - that's the price of a free market economy within a democracy... because I or you do not like something it does not necessarily follow that our opinion [and argue it any way you wish - it is only an individual's perspective that is being debated here] necessitates that everyone see the wisdom of it and fall in line or wholeheartedly agree.
Your perspective of common sense and the rest of the world's may differ radically... there are an enormous number of people who use these and other forums - how can you ascertain that the majority of them feel 'this' or 'that' about them?
Having been through these forums for some time, I cannot say they appear to be collapsing with the weight of this 'advertising trend' - most people pick up on the issues or posts that interest them and ignore those that don't. You have the right to your opinion but to try and intellectualise it to indicate that somehow your opinion is right to the exception of all others is tantamount to self deception.
As for being 'honest, decent and respectful' to indicate my 'connection' as having done the Graphics for the book... what does it matter, because I'm not plugging MY artwork in a review - it's my opinion of the text. There are various clients I've done work for that I do not like, rate or respect their product - so I don't praise it... end of story.
If you refuse to breach anything you consider to be an undesirable advertising trend, then I applaud you as much as I would if you were following this trend - that's your opinion and choice, as it is to everyone.
Personally I do feel advertising is becoming more pervasive and inescapable in every aspect of society, but there is a world of difference between generating interest and categorically trying to sell a product for pure financial gain. [Over half of this particular book is freely available on the internet - that way if the individual doesn't enjoy it then they have not spent their hard earned money on it - another reason I support the book!]
If everyone thought the same way there would be no variation, diversity or creativity - there are many things I personally dislike in the public or commercial sphere... but not enough to expect the rest of the world to reject them simply because I do.

J - a fair enough response. I stick by the point that avoiding the cut and paste approach and taking the time to write a few lines about the book and how it is relevant to the thread in each instance would be far less obtrusive and far more useful. Good luck with it, though, sincerely. Must be frustrating to feel the publisher isn't behind it.

I agee with M. - no need for lengthy diatribes. The template I outlined above, for instance, will hardly take up more than a short paragraph unless the poster him/herself feels like being more expansive. You tell me to hit the ignore button if I'm uninterested... how can I possibly know if I'm interested if I don't know what you're talking about?

I am sorry you seem to be taking my posts as a personal attack; as I've said, if anything they attack a trend. As for the majority's opinion of that trend, may I refer you to a thread posted a while back called 'Shameless plugs' or something along those lines - it was a very active discussion and, though some sensibilities were offended as you seem to be offended now, bottom line was that countless people were speaking up against said advertising trend. I for one think these boards would be a much better place if they were modded, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Anarchy is such a beautiful idea... on paper.

As for honesty - your point is fair enough, you do not admire the writing of every book you do artwork for therefore you don't advertise those, makes perfect sense. However, according to your review of Revolutions, you happened across the book and thought it was the bee's knees. This is misinformation. What's wrong with saying 'I don't normally review books I do artwork for but this one was just so incredible I had to share my thoughts?'

Re: duty of research... you yourself said I could be valuably spending my time researching the product or creating one of my own rather than knocking; I already do the latter so I took the time to do the former. Incidentally, having done my research: I have been rebellious and am still young but would not read the book in question in a million years. Now *that* is a subjective perspective - I as an individual am put off by graphic sex and violence, therefore the book is not for me at all. Someone else might wonder where this amazing book's been all their life; but I'm sure them as well as me would like to be told what it's about by the person recommending it to us.

Well I don't know about anybody else, but a book with this number of plugs just HAS to be great. In fact, as it's such a steal at £18.99, I've bought three! One to read, one to hermetically seal for my private collection of first editions, and one in case the reading one wears out. Which it SURELY will.

Full marks for such a subtle and dignified advertising campaign. Now, where are those pills...

Bj,
Can't say I feel it is a personal attack [because that would be rather infantile]... I assume this was merely a debate about perspective - something which is always healthy and educational. It doesn't sound like your kind of book and that's fair enough but essentially the tiny and, what I considered to be a trivial posting, did signal its existence to others who would otherwise not have been aware of it.
I would take issue with your somewhat singular subjective interpretation, when you indicate I have been deceptive - it does not say I came across this book, it says clearly..."I SAW A PREVIEW COPY OF THIS NOVEL AND HERE IS SOME DATA YOU MIGHT FIND USEFUL!"
Language and protocols tend to be subjective in how we interpret them: clearly yours and mine differ - end of story!

J Yasimoto
Brilliant and witty post - if you don't find it to be a truly great read then please get in touch and let me know. My respects and appreciation go to you.

M Dale
Point noted [as all postings have been] and I would certainly reassess aspects of posting if it is going to generate any ill feeling with anyone or fail to achieve its purpose - I was merely trying to unobtrusively let others know it was something they might enjoy... and isn't that as aspect of these forums? The Publisher is quite a small company and simply appears to have a very limited budget for promotion - the perils of economic reality. Thanks for your thoughts and advice.

J.Yasimoto, the pills you're looking for are being advertised on the Kierkegaard thread; the extra-strength version are being flogged on the thread discussing Shakespeare's sonnets.
Where do you plan to build your second home when you sell that first edition a few years hence?

I agree that a forum is an open democratic way of commmunicating - however when there is a really good thread going and there is a constant and inappropriate cut and pasting of the same book again and again or an author that continues to post the same self-promotion over and over it does get irritating. At least change the sentence.

I know we can ignore but I wonder if the authors and advertisers realise that for some readers they are generating the reverse of what they are trying to achieve. It is becoming counterproductive. One author is constantly advertising her book and it is starting to sound desperate - I wish she would let her book speak for itself. I actually picked up the book in a shop and put it down again when I realised it was the one she was going on about constantly. Desperation is never attractive...