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23 of 43 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars Two Views On Homosexuality & The Biblical Narrative, 2 Mar. 2007
This review is from: Homosexuality and the Bible: Two Views (Paperback)
Homosexuality and the Bible - Two Views - presents the views of two scholars - Dan O. Via presents a defence of loving consenting adults engaging in a same sex relationship as not sinful and attempts to demonstrate that the biblical narrative has a meaning that is open to differing interpretation and that were the biblical narrative is clear in its condemnation of the same sex union this can be amended by new light from science etc. Dan labels the opposing views of Robert Gagnon as being those views influenced by presupposition brought to the biblical text.

Having read this book I found the arguments of Dan O Via to be clearly influenced by his presupposition that the homosexual state is a given state rather than a chosen state, in fact its not your fault you turned out that way its just the way the cards are dealt. This affects his main thrust of argument and comes across in a clearly illogical manner. He fails to respond to the valid question, if it's a given state then what about those who engage in incest and maintain a loving and consensual relationship is this state therefore unsinful.

Robert Gagnon's treatment of the biblical narrative is clear, concise and logical. Dan O Via regards the biblical narrative in such a manner that it becomes devoid of any authority and his attempt to justify sexual acts by the term "abundant life" seems ridiculous. For many people multiple sexual partners and perhaps sexual contact with children would also be considered as "abundant life". I can confess to having once believed and attempted to gain as many sexual partners as possible for my own gratification as being the way to an "abundant life" - I was very very wrong!
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Showing 1-5 of 5 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 11 May 2011 01:20:29 BDT
Last edited by the author on 11 May 2011 01:23:42 BDT
R. C. Joy says:
One point - pedaphilia and incest are not comparable to homosexuality. Whilst the former are both subjects of abuse, homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation and not abusive in nature. There has been ample scientific evidence to support this despite the fact that we are still in the early days of research and is far removed from something such as the abuse of a child or the abuse of an already formed relationship due to shared genes i.e. incest. Homosexual persons as with heterosexual persons simply form relationships in the way that is natural to them and the simple fact that their significant other doesn't have opposite genitalia is an absurdity of obsession by the Church. As for the Bible, there is much to said about the lack of understanding of homosexuality throughout the period that Biblical documents were written, not forgetting the male, primitive minds who wrote Leviticus 18:22 for example. Despite this, there was a very good reason for Lev 18:22; procreation - any sex that was non procreative was deemed a waste of the scared seed (Onan was put to death for spilling his seed outside of the woman Gen 38) that was thought of at the time to hold the entirety of life. So, we are now presented with the argument of 'is procreative sex the only non sinful sex'? Simple answer; what separates human beings from the animal kingdom is the central desire for love beyond procreation. In saying that I should also mention that the love of two unrelated consenting adults who form a union of love and fidelity are in fact bringing life to the other. As all couples should be doing in a Christ centred relationship - they are giving the other life, moulding the other closer to the image of Christ which is love, hence a more abundant life; and in love matters of matter so to speak or gender to be precise are not of essence here; Gal 3:28 no longer male and female all one in Christ - spirit and no gender thus heterosexual or homosexual is of no issue or substance, love is spiritual at its core, but of course people are bilogical creatures as well as spriritual and will have an orientation either toward men or women, sometimes both but there is no longer male and female in Christ. Sexual orientation is therefore not an obstacle to walking in Christ.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Sep 2013 20:27:42 BDT
Last edited by the author on 19 Sep 2013 20:39:26 BDT
M. Greveson says:
I fail to see how a loving, consenting sexual relationship between adult brother and sister is abuse. Leaving aside the argument of the rights and wrongs of homosexuality. If a consenting adult brother and sister declare that they have always loved each other and both decide to enter into a sexual relationship when adults what argument can be made against that relationship. They are both adults, both consent, they are not hurting anyone else, they have sex in private. We might argue that this is not natural and genetically damaging to offspring. But will we stop disabled people having children because their offspring may have a greater chance of disability! What then defines natural. I think a lot of people in relationships that are incestuous would be greatly offended to have their relationship compared to Pedaphilia and rightly so. I would not treat such an incestuous loving couple with anything other than respect and compassion. I would not call them abusers, neither would I label homosexuals abusers either.

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Dec 2013 12:32:10 GMT
Richard says:
I believe that an adult brother and sister engaged in an incestuous sexual relationship are both subject to spiritual abuse and can therefore both be seen to be abusing one another. I firmly believe that all sexual immorality is a spiritual infirmity. Like you Mr Greveson I sought multiple male and female partners during my life. For me until I became a Christian in my early 50's I was not sure if I was fish nor fowl, male to female. My sexual abuse started very subtly with homosexual paedophiles abusing me as an 8 years old boy by 13 years of age my spiritual condition was such that I was open to any and all temptations . My spirit was like an onion being peeled slowly at first then by my mid teens it had been completely peeled off and it needed the Holy Spirit to come in and completely renew my inner man. Without that regeneration there is not a lot of hope for peace.

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Dec 2013 12:43:54 GMT
Richard says:
Dear Mr Joy thank you for your very intelligent post. I am almost tempted to throw out my beliefs of 7 years walking with The Lord but something still tells me not to do that. I can only speak for my own experiences as an adult male who lived a very promiscuous bixexual lifestyle for about 40 years. It started with me being abused by homosexual paedophiles at 8 years old and then being sodomised by teachers and others and other family members. By the time I hit mid teens I was very confused indeed. That confusion devastated my adult life and I have had many failed marriages and encouraged wives and girlfriends to have abortions. I became a Christian in 2007 and for thee first time in my adult life I knew who I was in Gods eyes and that who was a MAN. That , at 55 years of age , was a revelation to me and The Lord has walked with me every day since then through some of the most tempestuous and dark times of my life. My faith remains strong and I know who I am still and I have ceased from sexual immorality . Life has not been easy but no ones life is yet I cannot conceive of going back to those terrible days when I walked as a man in a dream not knowing whether I was a fish or a fowl. God bless

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Dec 2013 12:47:03 GMT
Richard says:
Mr Joy one final point I believe that all sexual immorality whether it be homosexuality, paedophilia , bestiality etc are all caused by a spiritual malady. They are all sin. As spiritual maladies they can only really be healed by the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit anything else is just like putting a sticking plaster on a gaping wound.
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