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Official Nintendo Wii U Thread Part 2.


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In reply to an earlier post on 1 Aug 2013 16:49:37 BDT
Last edited by the author on 1 Aug 2013 16:52:36 BDT
Nessy says:
I actually meant to write Xmas 2016 :/. That would still give WiiU 4 years on the market.

I think Nintendo just have to come to the realisation that WiiU has just not struck home with consumers the way Wii did, people are not interested in a console that to most people is 'on par with 8 year old tech' and comes with a very poor quality tablet (considering you can get a Nexus 7 for 130 now).

"Another issue I have with a "New Machine" in 2015 is that even if the Wii U was as powerful as the 360/Ps4 there would be still reasons why developers would not bring games out for it,the deals between Sony/Microsoft and developers were done a long time ago and are not going to be turned around without a lot of money from Nintendo,and I feel doing this would be stupid as their own software always sells their consoles."

I don't think this is the case at all tbh, after the NES/SNES there was always a reason for third parties not to bother with Nintendo consoles -

N64 = stuck to very expensive to produce cartridges which held 64MB's of data at max compared to the 700MB CD ROMS offered.

GC - they focused on 'mini discs' which held 1.5GB's of data at max compared to the 4.4GB's DVD's offered.

Wii = Hugely out of date hardware with a GPU that did not support modern shaders thus could not run the vast majority of PS360 multi platform engines and forced motion control.

WiiU = Again out of date hardware combined with a controller that means third parties have to think up ways to use it, controller also made the system far, far too expensive which affected hardware sales and now means almost all third parties (except Ubisoft and Activision) have abandoned the system after 9 months due to the tiny install base.

Nintendo's next console needs to fall in line with the industry, an X86 based CPU with a lot of RAM and a GPU that is at least as powerful as the one in XBO. They can still have a controller which innovates and all the same great first party games while also giving third parties the hardware necessary to build third party games with parity to PS4/XBO.

We have to give WiiU time until at least next summer imo to see what effect the 4th quarter software and marketing does and what MK8 along with a potential price drop achieves but at this stage I think the console is beyond the brink of being turned around in the EU and Japan (both regions sell it very cheap as it is so a price drop won't effect sales to any great degree). America is the only region left that the console can do well in imo but with PS4/XBO about to arrive it's not looking great.

WiiU has been an absolute disaster from the first minute tbh, from the laughable exclusive launch line up, to the delay of exclusive 'launch window' games, to the lack of third party support beyond Ubisoft, to the advertising, to the slow OS, to the laughable battery life in the controller.

Nintendo have penny pinched with this console to an almost laughable degree (as they do with 3DS and XL, no charger cable with the XL, really, really Nintendo ?....) and I for one will not be buying another one of their home consoles unless it's up to snuff tech wise, this is a company sitting on an almost $20 billion dollar fortune (if you include property), they treat their fans with utter contempt at times, it's a disgrace.

As much as I like Iwata as he is a game developer at heart I hope he steps down in April and there is a huge clear out. They have to get over the fact that Wii was a one off hit (old tech + no third party = massive sales).

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Aug 2013 17:00:24 BDT
The most annoying thing for me is that as soon as a proper Zelda U comes out, i'll pounce on the console regardless of price. I'm just a sucker for Zelda games!

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Aug 2013 17:06:28 BDT
Nessy says:
I think we might see the first gameplay of it around the time PS4/XBO launch to show WiiU can compete graphically with them. It's probably the only first party Nintendo game that can tbf unless Retro are making a big budget Metroid,

Posted on 1 Aug 2013 17:17:38 BDT
Nessy says:
Just to add to my earlier post I saw this linked on GAF -

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/analysis-can-nintendo-turn-wii-u-sales-around-this-christmas/0119501

"Meanwhile, when Asda cut the price of Wii U by 100 three weeks ago, this resulted in just 250 extra console sales compared with the week previously. Amazon followed suit the following week, which caused a further 667 console sales. This shows that the price cut did have an impact, but we're hardly talking big increases here."

The full article is truly worrying, WiiU is dead in the UK now and can't be turned around imo.

Posted on 1 Aug 2013 18:34:53 BDT
John Morris says:
This pretty much underlines retailers confusion over the Wii U,so no wonder the casual customers are in the dark too.

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/08/target-ad-fail/

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Aug 2013 18:41:09 BDT
Nick. says:
The problem is that the WiiU confusion is Ninty's fault, and almost impossible to change.
Many Wii games/applications were the word Wii with something after it, it is going to take a huge amount of marketing that is very clear to change that perception, and when there's going to be far more advertisements for the other gaming stuff it is going to be very hard.

Posted on 1 Aug 2013 19:28:31 BDT
Nintendo should just start advertising period. Has anyone seen Pikmin advertised yet?

If I were Nintendo I'd be doing weekly shopping center tours up and down the country, showcasing off the key Wii U games along with some of the upcoming ones. I went to a major one recently and the only new thing was Just Dance 2014, Wii Party U and Wii Kareoke. Also Pikmin 3. (which was out.)

Hardly Appealing. I noticed Sony have already been advertising for the likes of Gran Turismo 6 and other late games. Nintendo could be doing the same to show customers there's quite a few new titles on the way for the console.

Posted on 1 Aug 2013 19:41:27 BDT
John Morris says:
Nick,

It's tough but not impossible,so far Nintendo have been very poor in this respect.

Posted on 1 Aug 2013 22:28:30 BDT
even the Nintendo faithful have no desire to buy the console a few of my friends have still got their Nintendo consoles plugged into their tv and they said they have no interest in buying it, a price cut is now pointless so cose to ps4 and xbone...i'm with nessy the console has failed

In reply to an earlier post on 1 Aug 2013 23:35:34 BDT
Matthew says:
Despite having a ton of money, they won't be able to afford many more console failures, should they move away from the casual gamers with the next machine and still fail to attract an audience, the company could be in trouble.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 08:06:37 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Aug 2013 08:09:24 BDT
John Morris says:
Chris and Matthew,

The release of the Ps4 and Xbox 1 will make little difference to Nintendo or their console as it's a different market that was created by Sony with the Ps1,Microsoft entered into it with the original Xbox which to be honest sold low numbers compared to the Ps2,and it was only the fact that Microsoft have chucked lots of money at developers that they have managed to pretty much cut Sony's share of the hardcore market in half.Both Sony and Microsoft rely very heavily on third party support as unlike Nintendo they do not have the luxury of their own quality software to fall back on.

Nintendo have never been in this market as they would at best share a three way split of 150 million consoles or so,and would have had to pour tonnes of money to even secure that for what in my opinion would be a very poor return on their investment,Nintendo have always and will always rely on their own IP software and the advantage to them is they do not have to splash out money to secure it,if you look at Nintendo's home console sales from the N64 onwards and excluding the Wii they have always sold modest numbers but have more than made up for it with big numbers of Nintendo software sold,the Wii was as much a surprise to Nintendo as it was to customers but it's sales did not impact on Sony or Microsoft as it's customers will always buy their consoles.

The same equation applies to the Nintendo handhelds as the DS/3DS has little effect on the PSP/Vita's sales,even though like with the Wii we like to compare them,if the DS/3DS did not exist Sony's handhelds would still sell the same number of units as they would still appeal to the same type of customer simple as that,the same would apply to the Wii as the PS3 and 360 would not have shared another 100 million units of hardware between them if Nintendo had never released their last console.

I for one are glad Nintendo go down a different route as we don't need in effect three PS3's/360's on the market as there would be little choice for gamers other than hardcore games,I know people would like Nintendo to have this console that would offer pretty much everything,but when you look at that it's ridiculous as choices have to be made even when you decide weather or not to buy either Sony's or Microsoft's machines.

Nintendo will always continue to do what they do best and that's make very high quality software which will sell their consoles,and the continuing success of their handheld division shows there is still a large market from their own brand of entertainment.

When the dust settles after 5 years or so the Wii U will have made not lost Nintendo money,and add this to the pretty much guaranteed 3-DS success then once again they will have made a tidy profit to add to their massive fourtune,trust me chaps Nintendo are not going anywhere soon.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 08:18:24 BDT
John Morris says:
" Nintendo's next console needs to fall in line with the industry, an X86 based CPU with a lot of RAM and a GPU that is at least as powerful as the one in XBO. They can still have a controller which innovates and all the same great first party games while also giving third parties the hardware necessary to build third party games with parity to PS4/XBO."

Nessy,

Why would Nintendo throw loads of money on a machine this powerful only to still not get those third party titles?,the reason Nintendo do not get much third party support is for two reasons.

1,It's political as these companies have pretty much done deals with both Sony and Microsoft.

2,These games always sell low numbers on Nintendo consoles and are always in the shadow of Nintendo's own software.

The reason for this is Nintendo's machines appeal to a different market as I have been saying all along.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Aug 2013 09:03:40 BDT
AndyBSG says:
"Both the Ps3 and 360 have massive game libraries and can be picked up for around 140"

Yes, but when I was talking about the PS3 and 360 selling in excess of 1 million I wasn't talking about now, I was talking about the first quarter after they were originally launched.

The 360 supposedly sold over 2 million units just in America in the first quarter which puts the weak sales of the WiiU into perspective.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 09:22:59 BDT
John Morris says:
Andy,

You can't judge it by that as there were different market conditions,and you can't put an exact timeline on any consoles sales as they are unpredictable.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 13:19:32 BDT
John Morris says:
I see the sad individuals are back marking posts down,oh how the hours must fly by ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Aug 2013 14:07:13 BDT
Nessy says:
John I hear the same thing from Nintendo fans online all the time but I think it's a case of paranoia tbh, I listed the reasons why the N64, CG and Wii never got third party support earlier (cartridges, mini DVD's and weak hardware / forced motion control).

Nintendo have to meet third parties at least halfway by giving them a system on par with the other two with on par storage medium and standard controls. Third parties are businesses who want to make money, if they build a game and can port it easily to a third platform then they will do it. To them right now WiiU is a complete pain to port games to, PS360 games are a hassle because of it's architecture nevermind PS4/XBO games.

WiiU just sees to be the return to the already downward spiral Nintendo were on with N64 (32 million) and Gamecube (22 million) before the Wii craze hit. I wouldn't be surprised if WiiU sold 12 million in it's lifetime going on it's reception and sales at the moment meaning they are losing 10 million customers per generation if you ignore the Wii.

The vast majority of people outside of hardcore Nintendo fans will not buy a console which misses out on the 95% of multi platform games because those mult platform games make up the majority of a consoles software library.

The WiiU is not going to recover to any massive degree imo, it would take a turnaround unlike anything seen before in the industry for it to start selling at even Gamecube level numbers. It will almost certainly get a sales bump this Winter when DKC and 3D Mario World arrive and then again in Spring when MK8 releases but you are talking a couple of million this winter then maybe a million per time for MK, Smash and Zelda. Like I said before the vast majority of people will not buy a console for 4 or 5 games when there are other console that offer many more titles and variety for cheaper (PS360) or $50/100 more (PS4).

I predicted WiiU would turn around this Winter for the first half of 2013 until E3 happened, I thought they would get rid of the basic, price cut the Premium to $250/199, market the hell out of it from E3 onwards and have a Galaxy like 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Retro's game (Metroid or a new IP) all out in time to go head to head with PS4/XBO.

They are out of their freaking minds if they think an HD version of a GC game, a second DKC in the space of a few months and a 3D Mario that had a terrible reception is going to do anything against the tidal wave of hype and advertising of PS4/XBO this Winter.

I really enjoy my WiiU, I love Pikmin 3 and really enjoyed NSMB U and ZombiU and I will be buying W-101, WW HD and Mario 3D World but I truly think the console is done and Nintendo have to seriously think about what they do next, whether it's create a hybrid system when their next handheld is due or just bow out of the home console market and concentrate on handhelds.

Releasing home consoles which support only Nintendo software is simply not viable anymore and is just throwing a couple of billion dollars down the drain each time they do it...

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 14:49:19 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Aug 2013 15:01:42 BDT
John,

I'm sorry but you are kidding yourself with your continued argument about Nintendo competing in a different market, the fact is the Wii didn't sell as much as it did because of a range of first party titles it did on the back of two titles Wii fit and Wii sports at the time these titles were unique and had no competition, before the Wii, the Gamecube failed the success that Nintendo found with the Wii was a fluke where ninty managed to capture a new demographic, as soon as this happened Microsoft and Sony entered the market with superior offering and technology and that will continue with the next generation the difrence in quality between Wii Fit and say for example Nike Kinec Fitness training is a joke, people who played Wii Sports now play Kinect Sports and people who played Wii Fit now have a choice of 8-10 fitness games on the Kinect, there are whole websites and communities dedicated to Kinect fitness the same way that there was when Wii Fit first came out. Once again Nintendo won't even release Wii Fit U until after the launch of PS4 and XBOX ONE, now I am not saying that the casuals are going to adopt the XBONE at launch but they will stick with their Kinect because it is superior to Nintendo's motion capture technology and that is saying something as Kinect is far from perfect.

Whist I agree that the first party titles will attract additional users to the machine they are coming out at the wrong time they needed to be hitting the market between now and November, before the hardcore gamer's you believe will save the Wii U buy a PS4 OR XBOX ONE and become absorbed in those new technically superior machines.

Finally your comment about Sony and Microsoft not having first party titles to fall back on is probably the stupidest thing I have seen on this forum, I am not even going to produce a list but seriously???

I enjoy my Wii U but it is a failure.

In reply to an earlier post on 2 Aug 2013 15:05:40 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Aug 2013 15:08:56 BDT
Nessy says:
I like John, he is a smashing guy but I don't get where this 'Nintendo consoles do not compete with Sony or MS consoles' comes from

WiiU is a home console, thus it is competing with PS360 and will be competing with PS4/XBO, end of story. If Nintendo weren't interested in any of the so called 'hardcore' gamers then why are they bothering to secure ports of things like Splinter Cell, Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed, CoD and Watch Dogs ?.

Nintendo want the casual market and the core market, they are a business and they will make the most money out of having both sets of consumers.

"the fact is the Wii didn't sell as much as it did because of a range of first party titles it did on the back of two titles Wii fit and Wii sports at the time these titles were unique and had no competition"

Yip, consumers bought Wii for Wii Sports and motion control and once they had the system bought Wii Fit, Wii Play (mostly for the extra Wii mote), Mario Kart Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns and NSMB Wii, those games were not the reason they bought the console.

If Wii Fit U and Wii U Play were going to suddenly spike WiiU sales then why didn't NSMB U act as a killer app at launch and shift 10+ million consoles ?, it didn't because it was never the reason people bought the original Wii.

This chart shows exactly how much of a disaster WiiU is (comparing it's first year American sales with the other Nintendo consoles first year) -

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/168/c672.png

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 15:06:24 BDT
Nessy says:
On a more cheerful note, here is the box art for Wind Waker HD in Japan -

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/81kCfglTzZL._AA1500_.jpg

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 15:34:24 BDT
John Morris says:
Nessy,

Nice art.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 21:03:29 BDT
That is nice..

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 22:59:20 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Aug 2013 23:00:04 BDT
John Morris says:
I don't want to argue Chris,and I did not mean Sony and Microsoft had no first party software titles,what I meant was they had secured these software companies rather than them being part of their business already.

For example Halo was not seen as a Microsoft studios game as much as a game made by Bungie,of course it will always appear exclusive to Microsoft's consoles so it as good as a Microsoft game.

Nintendo also have companies that make games for them under the Nintendo banner as it were,Retro studios and Game freak are perfect examples of this,but most of their titles are from their own internal EAD department,this is what I was trying to covey.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 23:08:56 BDT
Defo not looking for a argument lol that makes more sense now

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 23:16:58 BDT
John Morris says:
Chris,

I think I realised that but still did want to explain things a little more,that's why I did not post a hasty response this afternoon mate,I fully take on board yours and Nessy's comments about the future of the Wii U and we will have to wait and see what happens.

I am pretty much like yourself enjoying the machine,and no matter what happens I am sure I will have lots of top quality Nintendo titles over the next five years.

Posted on 2 Aug 2013 23:26:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 2 Aug 2013 23:27:27 BDT
John Morris says:
On a related note I know people fail to understand my view of Nintendo being in a different market to Sony and Microsoft,but I see it this way as an owner of the Wii U,if I want the big third-party releases I will need to buy either the PS4 or Xbox 1 to secure these titles,and I feel this would still be the case even if the Wii U was a powerful as these two consoles.

Nintendo will continue to go down their more "universal" software route that will appeal to most age groups,and to be honest I feel the videogame industry is better off because of this as games like Pikmin 3 would probably never get made otherwise.
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