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negging vine reports

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Showing 1-22 of 22 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 13 Jan 2012 17:07:24 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 22 Feb 2012 19:02:20 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 13 Jan 2012 17:18:30 GMT
O E J says:
"Any suggestions"

I think Neurosplicer might have one for you.......

Posted on 13 Jan 2012 17:25:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jan 2012 14:49:25 GMT
The Truth says:
Vine reviews will be met with a torrent of negative votes. That's just the way it is. You'll just have to get used to it.

It's a small price to pay for getting free stuff. It's unfair, but don't let it get to you.

Amazon should sort it out though, because I think it puts the Vine programme in jeopardy. Manufacturers won't keep offering stuff for free when they realise that Vine reviews are less than useless. I actually think they can be damaging to a products reputation, because if you give a deserving item a glowing review and its met with a torrent of negs from other viners, it just makes it look like a load of people have bought the item, disagree it's any good, and think it's rubbish.

Posted on 15 Jan 2012 19:52:23 GMT
As someone else posted on here it happens. I did a review which was a 5 star non controversial and within minutes it was needed. i posted a bother a few minutes later an same occurred. Shame we can't see who is negging. Again someone suggested that Amazon only record positive reviews and I think that may be the answer in that poor reviews will get less or no positives.

Posted on 15 Jan 2012 20:47:11 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jan 2012 05:33:06 GMT
O E J says:
Chances are, even the top nobs at Amazon feel the same way about all this from a personal point of view (whatever) but this isn't personal - it's business, and the priority for them will always be traffic, revenue and profit - and as long as this heated debate goes on - which it has done for YEARS - they'll be happy just the way things are. It's clear that right or wrong, the negging causes interest one way or another, so if they settled the arguments you can be sure that within days sales would fall simply because less people are visiting the Amazon website. They want this unsatisfactory situation to remain just as it is, because financially: it works.

Posted on 16 Jan 2012 09:20:22 GMT
Puzzle crazy says:
I am not a vine member, but I think that these sad individuals that vote people down just because they are vine members is very sad. Some people have had to remove their vine voice tag from their profile for this reason. The negative vote should be abolished, it would solve a lot of problems and sort out these mean spirited people. Some people put a lot of work into writing a review and it is sad when a vindictive individual votes it down out of spite.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jan 2012 14:46:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jan 2012 14:48:03 GMT
The Truth says:
OEJ A Bard:
I disagree... I don't think the people running around negging each other does anything other than affect Amazon's business negatively. This heated debate and interest in votes only goes on amongst reviewers. And only a few of them too - so we're talking a miniscule fraction of Amazon customers; I fail to see how it would all translates into sales too.

If, however, they settled the issue, I think it would have a positive effect on sales and reviews. At the moment it means potentially good reviews are hidden and products that are good, could be made to look bad, because a glowing review is instantly met with a volley of votes saying "I disagree" - which translates to, this item is rubbish.

I don't think it has that much affect, but if it's having any affect at all, I think it's damaging sales not increasing them. It's definitely ruining Vines reputation amongst those who take an interest.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jan 2012 15:33:20 GMT
O E J says:
You may disagree, but here are some Amazon financial facts for you. These are for the financial year of 2010 (compared to 2009), as those for 2011 haven't been released yet.

Revenue increased to US$ 34.204 billion
Operating income increased to US$ 1.406 billion
Net income increased to US$ 1.152 billion
Total assets increased to US$ 18.797 billion
Total equity increased to US$ 6.864 billion
Number of employees 33,700

The 2011 data may not be as good, but that would be a reflection on global trends anyway. I understand that sales were substantially higher in 2011 but profits may not have followed, in both cases due to Amazon's heavy investment in the Kindle.

Amazon's US share price in January 2007 (i.e. 5 years ago) was US$38. Last friday it closed at US$178. That's an increase of more than 350%. Wish I'd stopped reviewing back then and started buying shares instead....

My point is, the model's working, the company's growing, profits are rising and it's all looking positive. You've probably heard of the adage 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', well here's a pretty big example.

As I said in my post yesterday, this is business. Making a change such as you're implying may be nice for YOU individually, but the bald facts are that whatever Amazon are doing right now, it's paying big dividends. And they don't exist to make reviewers happy, they exist to make a profit. If the abandonment of the negative vote was PUT to a vote - at a board meeting for example - it's a safe bet that it would not get approval. There's too much at stake, and in any case they have much bigger issues to resolve.

On a personal level, of course I'd like to see changes - I've been yakking on about it for years.

In reply to an earlier post on 16 Jan 2012 16:47:54 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jan 2012 16:53:13 GMT
The Truth says:
I fail to see the relevance or the relationship between the figures you posted and the negging of reviews... and Amazon are making changes all the time. The whole chart was 'revolutionised' just a few weeks ago.

"If it aint broke, don't fix it is" not really the attitude to take when running a multi-billion dollar business, and I doubt that's the view Amazon take.

"And they don't exist to make reviewers happy, they exist to make a profit."

I totally agree. My point being, although only having a small impact on the big picture - the effect negging has on Amazon's profit - is negative, not positive. That's what my logic leads me to believe anyway.

I doubt it's much of an impact either way though.

Posted on 16 Jan 2012 17:25:57 GMT
O E J says:
"My point being, although only having a small impact on the big picture - the effect negging has on Amazon's profit - is negative, not positive. That's what my logic leads me to believe anyway. "

Here's some logic. You posted on this thread, more than once, about an issue related to negging on Vine reviews (and probably the general topic of negging all round). So did I of course. The relevance is that you and I and a few others are on this forum because we feel that we have to make a stand, to make a point - despite doing it countless times previously. We keep coming back to an Amazon forum to make the same points over and over again. And that's just what Amazon want you to do - it's only one of their many many methods, but when you look at the 'should we abolish the negative vote' thread, which is easily the most 'posted' thread in this forum, you can see that this 'negative issue' is actually quite positive for Amazon. People keep coming back, and that's exactly what Amazon want to make happen. And who knows how many lurkers there are? Just reading these threads out of curiosity etc. If Amazon 'dealt with it' (as you put it) or 'sorted it out', by which I can only assume the negative vote was either removed or made to mean less than it does, it doesn't matter how insignificant the number would be but Amazon will have already decided that ANY number of people withdrawing from the site because a topic had been 'sorted out' would not be a good thing. For big companies like this, even the smallest details matter.

As you know, on a personal level I agree with the OP and with you and with pretty much everyone else, in that I would prefer it if the problem was dealt with. What I'm saying, in response and kind of with a company hat on, is that it's very unlikely to happen because making anything LESS controversial is often deemed to be bad for business. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if all of this was expected to happen a decade and more ago, before the unhelpful option was introduced. It was probably created to CAUSE this dispute, not just for the more obvious/conventional reason. Somebody in marketing said "Hey - I've got an idea. It'll annoy a lot of people, but I think it will boost sales". They KNEW that the unhelpful option would be abused long before anyone even saw it, and they figured it would be a good thing - it's just that it's not good for some of us. Just the company. Personally if I see an unhelpful review - and there aren't that many, really, compared to reviews that people disagree with - I'll as often as not post a comment to say what I feel. I wish everyone would so the same, but for now nobody has to do that, so the irritations continue.

Posted on 16 Jan 2012 17:40:17 GMT
Last edited by the author on 16 Jan 2012 17:41:34 GMT
The Truth says:

It's logic - but it's not logical in my opinion...

"you and I and a few others are on this forum because we feel that we have to make a stand, to make a point - despite doing it countless times previously. We keep coming back to an Amazon forum to make the same points over and over again."

That's not true of me. That's not the reason I come to this or any other Amazon forum.

Yes, the same point is being made over and over again by various people, and I'm just replying. Feel free to change the record.

My point is, that the vast majority of Amazon sales, come not from reviewers or forum users (who I suspect there are only really a few off), but by your average shopper. They have no clue about the 'neg war' and chart battles etc. Or even know what Vine is about.

So when they see a review saying something is a really good 5 star product, and a dozen votes disagreeing, it could well put them of buying that product because it looks like 12 people bought it, or have had experience with it, and think it's a rubbish item.

Also - at the very least, taking your argument into account, if everyone is on these forums complaining abou the neg vote - it's time not spent browsing good, so I disagree on that level too.

Just my opinion.

Posted on 2 Feb 2012 01:19:27 GMT
Glenn Cook says:
I find that almost all my reports get a neg vote minutes after being posted.
I must admit I find this sad when I have put effort and thought into writing the thing.
The most annoying 'neg' I ever got was for a couple of CDs that did not have the track listings.
I painstakingly listed all the tracks about 26 for each CD.
Within days of doing so each had a negative rating.
Now I ask you how could this info that I provided be considered unhelpful??

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Feb 2012 11:44:26 GMT
Only Amazon can sort this out otherwise there is no point in laboring over honest reviews to have them indiscriminately negged by those with their obvious, pathetic agenda. How about top reviewers withdrawing their services in the hope that Amazon will take note and do something.

Posted on 8 Feb 2012 16:55:44 GMT
foxcylady says:
Maybe if Amazon took that massive bling sign from above all Reviewers reviews it would advantage Vine members, daft and stupid as it makes it looks like every product reviewed is free when in fact they are not

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Feb 2012 20:11:37 GMT
The Truth says:
The bling sign? If you mean the big green banner you find at the top of all Vine reviews, I don't think they can. I think that is a legal requirement to let people know that the item being reviewed had been supplied for review by the manufacturer. It's about being transparent.

If however, you mean the little blue Vine badge, that appears where people's top reviewer badges appear, then they can be removed by the individual in their settings. Indeed, many reviewers do this and I'm sure it helps some.

Posted on 7 Mar 2012 04:54:35 GMT
I am a Vine member in the US, not here, but we have the same problem there. The minute a Viner posts a review, 2 or 3 neginators pop up immediately, very discouraging, personally, I think Amazon should drop the negatives completely, more often than not they just mean the reader disagrees with you,

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2012 09:14:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Mar 2012 09:15:02 GMT
Mondoro says:
The campaign to get the negative vote dropped - or the alternative, the requirement that the negative voter should make a comment on the review - has been running for several years now. I don't think it has any significant correlation with Amazon sales/share prices. More significant is the argument that in a free society, people have the right to comment and disagree with a review, and to express a view without having to identify themselves - plus the point that everyone has the right to disagree, subject to the usual limitations imposed by the Amazon guidelines. We could hope for reasoned comment and disagreement, but I suppose that in the final analysis it is the price we have to pay for having an outlet for the expression of our own opinions on the items we review.

Posted on 8 Mar 2012 10:10:11 GMT
I now look out for the vine reviews (as it normally means the reviewer is good at what they do) and find the majority of them spot on. I think that those who leave negative votes should have to post a comment as to why they thought this, then atleast its like feedback and reviewers can take on board what any critics have to say. Since I started posting on the 'top reviewers forums' I have had a host of negs, just as I express my opinion and I can tell its people just doing it out of spite as its always my most recent review (the one which 1st appears on my profile) which gets the neg. Shame but it really doesn't bother me. I'm not expecting a vine invite any time soon ha ha.
I admit, many of your reviews have influenced my descision to purchase a product and I appreciate anyone who is willing to share their expirience with a product.

All the best and keep up the good work!!!!

Gareth (PP)

Posted on 8 Mar 2012 13:57:36 GMT
Last edited by the author on 8 Mar 2012 14:00:46 GMT
The Truth says:
Yeah - if you choose to post in this forum you will pay the price. Loads of spiteful negs. Sadly, lots of people start posting here and then vanish for that very reason. Don't let it bother you. Think of them as medals :-)

Rival reviewers are feeling threatened enough that they have to resort to cheating.

As for Vine. Just keep posting reviews. And visit the Vine section/forum frequently in case they're handing out invites. That's how I got mine - I didn't get sent one. It's:

I just went there one day and next thing you know I was asked to join Vine. So keep looking. However, expect the number of spiteful negs you get then to shoot through the roof!

Posted on 8 Mar 2012 14:01:00 GMT
Crookedmouth says:
Ypu - that's how it happened to me. No invite

Posted on 8 Mar 2012 14:02:06 GMT
[Deleted by the author on 20 Oct 2012 14:24:43 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2012 14:15:38 GMT
The Truth says:
Hi Isla,

Nice to see/hear/read from you again. Good to know you're still around :-)
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Participants:  12
Total posts:  22
Initial post:  13 Jan 2012
Latest post:  8 Mar 2012

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