self promotion

Much as I have enjoyed some of the conversations on this forum I'm afraid I'll be spending less time here in the future. This is entirely due to the ridiculous amount of self promotion in practically every thread. On one page I just counted 4 identical posts from the same author. Obviously these spammers have never heard the expression "self praise is no praise." On the kindle forum this has been almost eradicated but this forum is still rife with it. I realise that authors want to sell their books and the occasional mention of their book is fine but repeated posts are irritating especially when they constantly quote from reviews.

*tumbleweed*

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And who is looking for what here, exactly?

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Totally unbelievable. "Phil" (i.e. Mr Bottomley) has clearly not bothered to read earlier posts. This is not a forum on which to indulge in self-promotion; it is a thread where those who indulge in this practice have been criticised for persisting in this practice despite clear guidance from Amazon - and repeated reminders from participants - that this is not allowed outside the MOA forum.

Are you an incurable optimist, Sou'Wester? :)

Phil (Bottomley), I honestly think you should write better 5* reviews for your books. The ones by yourself are a bit putting-off, I'm afraid

It's annoying that my post was proved correct only shortly after I made it.

I completely agree with the OP. I've read some really good "self published" books on Kindle, but it's now utterly impossible to sort the dross from the delight due to endless shilling, self promotion and sock-puppet reviewers. Now, I don't trust anyone who recommends a book that's not on a "mainstream" publisher, which is a really sad state of affairs. It's got beyond a joke and is an utterly counterproductive marketing technique.

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Bizarrely, the review in question has been changed from 5* to 1* ????

Interesting. Didn't know it's technically possible...

There's also some very peculiar "No" voting going on in this thread - are we being set upon by the notorious "Spam Gang"??!!

You know what's funny? I've counted. The "no" votes for some weird reason come in six'es, all at once. And by the way, it reaches far beyond this thread. And beyond yours or mine posts. Now, I find it really funny. Shall we wait till the six-times-no voter wakes up to do his/her job? :)

I noticed how those votes all suddenly appear at once. Reminds me of how some books' 5* reviews will often be posted almost simultaneously!

I feel like next time someone posts a self-spamming message following up with "I've read that. It was the worst thing I've ever read. The author was clearly an idiot and probably poisoned wells for a laugh. Nothing about this book is good. IT RUINED MY LIFE!"

Although that'd probably get it more views than it deserved.

Hello - it happened!

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It's sad reading some of this discussion. I published my first novel in August last year both on Kindle and with Lulu.com and received mixed reviews. The sad part is that some people just seem bent on being negative without being realistic or truthful. Whilst some of my own reviewers had useful and helpful criticisms, others were just insulting for the sake of it. It hasn't put me off at all and I'm halfway through my second book, hopefully having gained from the experience. But please, those you who feel it necessary to just put down people's efforts, think before you become offensive instead of helpful.

Why should I be helpful?

If you want people to be helpful, stop being offensive yourself first - how about that? Promote your books in right places, talk with people, and you'll get lots of help, I think.

Self-promotion is NOT allowed (by Amazon) or welcome outside Meet Our Authors forum. Still, authors keep spamming and spamming and spamming. It's irritating, you know. Up to the point of infuriating, sometimes.

Being too insistent you put people off, I honestly think so. And no, I'm not helpful, if I can't make a step without stumbling upon some self-promoter. Sorry

And, worse, you, self-promoting authors, never actually read other posts. The MOA forum always comes as a big surprise for you. All you care about is you. That's a lot of caring, so I'd rather care about something else.

Please, don't take this too personally, but Mr. Flannagan above won't read this anyway, so it goes as a reply to you :)

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I have looked at and contributed to several threads today and I am finding that there are two types of posters who seem determined to spoil things for everyone, one is the self promoting writer who is determined to gatecrash every thread going, even though it's totally against Amazon policy and the other is the wind up merchant who seems to have some kind of obsession with being insulting to all and sundry, it appears to me that these days in all walks of life there are a minority who are set on spoiling things for the majority, they probably pick on these Amazon forums because they think that they will reach a large audience.

I don't know if I agree, Mr Lacey. I think what your seeing are frustrated readers reacting in different ways. You see, many of us formerly used these forums as good places to get feedback on "under-the-radar" new authors and seek out genuine recommendations from a community of like-minded readers.

However, wanton self-promotion and shilling took over, with sock-puppet accounts posting glowing reviews both on the forums and across Amazon. What started out as a small problem quickly spiraled out of control to the point that many, myself included, will no longer trust a so-called hot tip unless it's for a book under a mainstream publishing house or the recommendation comes from someone we trust or know. Which is sad, as this loses some great authors the readers they deserve.

Even more frustrating, when "spammers" or new authors unaware of the rules concerning self promotion are offered polite advice on where to post they tend to either ignore it or respond in a manner that can be seen as rude or aggressive to the community.

Believe me, I know how much work and effort putting your books together is, and how much emotion is poured into these projects. I'm a full-time author, albiet in the marketing and content field, and have previously written novels, plays and films. I know full well how much a barb of critisism can personally hurt, even when it's well meant. But the fact remains, there are ways of going about marketing yourself and your work and anything that upsets your potential audience isn't the best way to go about things.

There are so many ways of building a reputation and, although most require a little work, most are far more entertaining than creating false accounts and assuming a persona to review your own work, or copy pasting what you think is an attention-grabbing paragraph across countless forums and threads. You'll only end up with negative reviews that way.

Much better is to enter into a debate with your potential readership. Get them on board. Ask advice. Perhaps offer your work, free of charge, to a limited number of particularly interested readers for feedback. Don't just use these forums, either. Build relationships across the wider community for your genre. React calmly to unintentionally hurtful feedback and ignore the trolls. Above all, listen to what your "new fans" say and maybe even rework what you've written following their comments. There's nothing more endearing to a community than to feel they are part of a published work....

That's just the beginning. There's so much you can do, and it all looks great for agents and publishing houses if you ever choose to go down that route.

Paul,

A good post and in the main I agree with all your points. What I don't agree with is the reference to 'polite advice'. Some of the posters, two in particular, are not polite at all. In my opinion their posts are just as much spam as the posts they criticise. 'Pots and kettles' springs to mind.

Alan