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What is the point of it all?


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In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2010 09:10:47 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
wonderful scientific research is being embarked upon in the area of consciousness..... and physicists are makes leaps and bounds in their research.... our times are changing G Stevens...progress is a foot for people like you who need hard scientific proof of all things deemed 'supernatural' it's only a beath away.....
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I look forward to the scientific evidence. It might help if the flakier elements of our society would stop making outrageous claims without a shred of evidence.
Your earlier assertion re every cell having pleasure receptors is a case in point. Every cell does not have pleasure receptors, every cell has receptors. Some of those cells respond in a particular way to certain chemicals. That response may be interpreted in different ways in the brain. It is the absurd and emotive language that devalues the work of scientists. It is these overblown claims and false conclusions that give some science a bad name though often it has nothing to do with the scientist, it is the media and silly excitable people who do that.

We know much more about how the brain works, what consciouness is, how the body works in general, than we did in the 60s. Revisiting old research makes sense. But just revisiting old research does not mean that there will be major discoveries. It is not an excuse to say 'see, there must be something in it if the scientists are looking at it'. Has any of the new research demonstrated the possibilty of long distance'mind to mind' communication yet? Do you have anything but many times translated documents, whose original source was probably word of mouth, to support your claims?

Instead of making supernatural claims, unfounded claims, wishful thinking claims, and hoping that future science will prove you right why don't you wait and see? At the moment there is no evidence that anyone can communicate by mind over even short distances, let alone long ones, yet you claim it can be done. You are guessing and hoping. It is possible that new research will unleash this amazing power, it is possible that new research will reveal telekinetic powers, or the ability to see down to a molecular level but it hasn't happened yet. It is possible that new drugs will enhance areas of our brain, develop certain talents, but guessing what they might be is pointless. When LSD was the subject of experimentation it caused a big stir. Synesthesia, heightened awareness, increased creativity etc. All very interesting. Some people had permanent changes, not all positive, but as far as I'm aware, there were no Firestarters or telekinetics or long distance communicators.

The same absurd claim making goes on in the alternative medicine industry.
It would be ok if we could even see that sniffing this herb produced that result, even if we didn't understand the mechanism, but in most cases we can't. In most cases no link can be found at all, in most studies the results are very poor. If we could even establish cause and effect it would be a start, how it works can come later.

I always find it amusing that the flakes on the one hand tell us that these things are possible despite science not supporting it and then leap on the science bandwagon when it turns up a positive result. You need to make up your minds, is science a worthwhile way of deciding the effectiveness of a treatment or isn't it? You can't just pick the bits you like, you either accept science as the judge of effectiveness or you don't.

Wait and see, report the latest results but don't leap on research as proof that your wildest claims have been proved. At the moment you are just another flake making wild claims cherrypicking scientific results to suit.

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2010 09:16:51 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
good grief, why all the negativity?.....have you been ripped off by/let down by someone in this nature of work?
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What a negative view. Are you saying that only someone who has been ripped off could have a negative view of these wild claims? That any normal person should just accept the most bizarre of them without question?
at the moment you appear to be a better read version of hj. Perhaps you can change that by offering rather less extreme claims and giving the evidence at the same time. And not being surprised when people don't just gasp in amazement at your latest wild idea.

Posted on 6 Mar 2010 10:23:47 GMT
Shakti~ says:
* sighs and shakes my head*.....clearly is there is so much you have absolutely no idea about ..perhaps your passionate energy would be better utilised in a worthwhile noble cause in 3D...instead of covering up your insecurites by inflating your ego and coming into a spiritual forum in the hope of debunking 'flakes' wild claims and trying to save us from ourselves....*rolls eyes*

as for complementary therapies..thats exactly what they are, complementary to orthodox medical healthcare...they are not a replacement nor are in they competing against orthodox health care... yet strangely some areas of the medical profession feel threatened by these therapies....the pharmacutical ( spg) industry is a multi- million pound industry don't forget!!

that said there is a doctor healer network in this country, and I know many nurses are involved in healing also... *smiles*

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2010 11:12:57 GMT
Last edited by the author on 6 Mar 2010 11:18:08 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
* sighs and shakes my head*.....clearly is there is so much you have absolutely no idea about
---
Enlighten me?
What exactly do I have absolutely no idea about? Which of your wild claims actually has sound evidence behind it?
Where is the evidence for long distance mind to mind communication, for example? Do you have any or did you just read about it in a book which provides, as you do, loads of supposition with no foundation? Are you just parroting this nonsense and don't like having to provide evidence? Do you usually preach to the undiscerning converted?

Shakti-
as for complementary therapies..thats exactly what they are, complementary to orthodox medical healthcare...they are not a replacement nor are in they competing against orthodox health care... yet strangely some areas of the medical profession feel threatened by these therapies....the pharmacutical ( spg) industry is a multi- million pound industry don't forget!!
---

I note that you use the term 'complimentary' rather than alternative. That was a masterstroke of marketing by the industry.
Lets look at a couple of popular 'complimentary' treatments:

Take vitamin E. Offered, often with selenium, as a preventative for prostate cancer. Shown to not only be ineffective prevention but to actually increase* the incidence of prostate cancer. It also produced a 13% rise in risk of heart failure. the 35,000 men on the trial have been asked to stop taking the suppliments and will continue to be monitored.

Echinacea as a cold preventative. A study showed that there was no change in the number of people who became infected with the cold virus, Echinacea was ineffective. there is no evidence of contra indications.

Ginkgo biloba found ineffective against dementia.

St Johns Wort ineffective against major depression and no more effective than placebo in minor depression. The antidepressent used in the trial was also no more effective than the placebo.

Glucosamine ineffective for osteoarthritis.

These studies, and others showing that acupunture is inffective for most of the things it claims, were carried out, on behalf of, or accepted by NCCAM.
Accupuncture was shown to be effective for migraine and lower back pain but oddly the results were the same even if no needles punctured the skin.

Can you see that when subjected to rigourous scientific study many of these techniques fail to perform and some even prove to be dangerous.
Do you think it is right that people should be sold these 'cures' when they are ineffective or dangerous?

Shakti-
yet strangely some areas of the medical profession feel threatened by these therapies....the pharmacutical ( spg) industry is a multi- million pound industry don't forget!!
---
I see what you are trying to imply but isn't it more sensible to accept that perhaps the medical profession, being scientifically based in the main, might be concerned about unproven treatments being touted as effective?

I note that many NHS clinics are offering CAM on the premises, osteopathy, acunpuncture and homeopathy, it's a good money spinner. My own consultant just recommended glucosamine even though there is no clinical evidence that it is effective for my condition. Doctors are people too.
I have had good results with osteopathy in the past, for injuries mainly, although it was mainstream medicine that discovered the cause of the current problem the osteopath was treating and could never have cured. (neither can mainstream medicine but it can slow the progress) The osteopath never once suggested that I see a doctor.

Shakti-
and I know many nurses are involved in healing also
---
So?
Most people who go into nursing are caring people, it's not something you put up with just for the enormous finacial benefits.
Most are women.
Women are by far the most likely to be involved in alternative medicines, 'spiritual' affairs and 'non scientific' beliefs. (although it is very often men who are selling the treatment it is most often women who are buying it)
So we have caring people who are more susceptable (it may be evolutionary, it may be conditioning) to hokey nonsense.
How does this further your case?

*considered statistically insignificant and possibly down to chance.

Posted on 6 Mar 2010 17:58:47 GMT
Shakti~ says:
WoW!...not only are you a condescending, patronising moron, but you are also a misogynist!.....nice!

In reply to an earlier post on 6 Mar 2010 20:18:17 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
WoW!...not only are you a condescending, patronising moron,
---
And yet you still fail to answer any of the my questions or assertions, preferring to try and divert attention elsewhere.
Poor technique, very poor.

Is it cos I is blaaak?

Shakti-
but you are also a misogynist!.....nice!
---

Could you point out where I was misogenistic.
Is it racist to say that in the UK boys from the Caribbean and West Indian communities under perform at school?
Is it sexist to say that women tend to have less upper body strength than men?
Racist to say that people of black African or Mediterranian origin are more likely to have sickle cell anaemia?

Posted on 8 Mar 2010 18:44:45 GMT
Shakti~ says:
'yet you fail to answer any of my questions'...ermm exactly who do you think you are?? I am not answerable to you in any way shape or form on here, I do not need to explain a god darn thing to you!! yet you post all over the place trying to monopolise what could be extremely interesting exchanges on spiritual matters without your input..... you add nothing and detract much.... you constantly try to turn discussions into your own personal little ego trip.......you don't look at these forums as an interesting exchange of ideas and spiritual values, you see this as a playground in which to create a competetion by exchange of words.... you spit your dummy out when not paid enough attention to, you clearly have deep seated insecurity issues..... I suggest you get a life, really....

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2010 20:04:12 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
loads of ranting, but still fails to answer any questions, instead continues with the distraction techniques.
Could you point out where I 'spit my dummy out'?
And where I was a misogenist?
What is it that I know nothing about?
Are you unable to actually support any of the weird claims and assertions you make?
Do you believe anything that is put in front of you?
Isn't there something you can take to calm your nerves, camomile tea perhaps?

Posted on 9 Mar 2010 11:04:31 GMT
Shakti~ says:
this thread asks, what is the point of it all....my answer is

'To know thyself'.......I recommend you try this Stevens

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2010 14:13:32 GMT
G. Stevens says:
Shakti says:
this thread asks, what is the point of it all
---
And I gave my answer fairly early on. I then responded to other people's posts, it is a forum after all.
Shakti-
....my answer is

'To know thyself'.......I recommend you try this Stevens
---

I know myself pretty well. I understand my motivations, I take responsibilty for my actions. I don't blame the fates or the gods for the bad things and nor do I thank them for the good things.

You seem unable to actually answer any of my assertions and seem intent on avoiding them. Why is that?
Is it because you are beginning to realise that your fuzzy, eclectic and cherry picked 'spiritualism' is on very shaky ground, based in wishfullness rather than reason or good sense?

You say that you have been investigating this stuff for 15 years. That puts you either among the wilful scammers and manipulators or among the sheeplike gullible.
Have you written a book yet, or do you just read them, that is often the decider?

Posted on 26 Mar 2010 14:44:42 GMT
To raise the level of your vibratory consciousness through correct action,so you can manifest at a higher level.....get me out of this god-damned meat suit you people drive me crazy....with your religious text that says this or that and personalising everything to the point of solipsism.. argghh!

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Jul 2010 23:56:22 BDT
When life is so bad that there is there is to gain some comfort in the flesh.

In reply to an earlier post on 31 Jul 2010 11:41:00 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 16 Aug 2010 17:17:23 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:41:03 GMT
So what?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:42:37 GMT
"Religion gives people false hope, that in death you will in fact experience true life, and eternal happiness."

That only really refers to Christianity. Judaism has no clear textual guide to the afterlife.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:43:13 GMT
Pointless if you're not Christian.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:43:56 GMT
"Gather ye rosebuds while ye may."

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:44:50 GMT
"whats the point of it all ? think the answer to that is what ever u want the point of it to be what ever makes u happy"

What made Ted Bundy and Charles Manson happy was killing people.
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Dec 2010 13:46:51 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 12 Mar 2011 23:19:11 GMT
Dreamer says:
It has in fact succumbed to middle age spread and has eaten far too many packets of crisps for its own good while it vegetates on the sofa in front of the one eyed monster.

In reply to an earlier post on 13 Mar 2011 16:07:51 GMT
LOL!

In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2011 06:46:31 GMT
Withnail says:
What do you mean by one eyed monster?

In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2011 19:30:54 GMT
Television, methinks.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2011 23:09:17 GMT
Dreamer says:
Indeed you are correct. Also known of as the electric eye, the big square god box and the brain eater

Posted on 20 Mar 2011 12:15:15 GMT
The idiots lantern
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Participants:  34
Total posts:  75
Initial post:  9 Jul 2009
Latest post:  20 Mar 2011

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