God Does Not Exist Because... (3)

14th day of Lent, 2012 A.D.

THANK YOU LORD
.14. And thank You for Your `Law of Unity,
Control and Direction' - Your wondrous Plan,
Making Your Universe evolve through time,
From `simple' to complex - peaking in man.

Hi Mark

Some time ago, on `God Does Not Exist Because... (2)', page 330 to be exact, you wrote:

>>> I am almost certain that there is no God as it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking Him.

I am intrigued.

Can you please explain how it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking God.

Many thanks

Best wishes

Paul

Good morning Paul

I woke up singing this

And He will raise you up on eagle's wings
Bear you on the breath of dawn
Make you to shine like the sun
And hold you in the palm of His Hand.

Loving God is pure joy.

God bless

Diane

Hi Diane

I did not know this one. I checked it on the web. Beautiful.

A lovely hymn to God on this the 14th day of Lent, 2012 A.D.

A good time to wake up, rejoice, and give thanks.

God bless

Paul

Hi Paul,

Another thread filled with 10,000 posts!

You asked what I meant when I wrote - "I am almost certain that there is no God as it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking Him."

Basically, although there are many questions that we have yet to find full answers to, I personally believe that the Universe and all its contents can be explained without reference to God. To a certain extent, once an explanation includes God, we reach a wall. If God created man in His image, who are what created God? The usual answer involves either God having always existed or that He was His own first cause. Either way the answer begins to slip away and we admit there will be a whole class of enquiry that will always be closed to us. One alternative answer to the question of where did we come from, explains our presence by suggesting that we evolved from other apes who in turn......... right back to the first life on Earth. The original life may be explained by the process of abiogenesis.

I hope that helped explain my initial remark?

Cheers
Mark

Mr Paul Davidson

"From `simple' to complex - peaking in man. "

The arrogance of Christianity.

If we've 'peaked' one wonders why the sky fairy still allows evolution to occur?

Who created the MIND of God?

Origin of the Universes.

There is no great mystery that lies behind the existance of a Universe as religionists would have us BELIEVE. A Universe is as simple and natural as a tree. There is no GREAT MYSTERIOUS BEING who created the Universe and went off some place never to be seen again. We have never been taught that just as all living beings have a nature of their own passed on to them by Absolute Nature, Absolute Nature itself has a Nature which is called THE NATURE OF NATURE.

Hi Mark

>>> Another thread filled with 10,000 posts!

9,990 to go!

To recap:

You claimed (in`God Does Not Exist Because... (2)', page 330):

>>> ... it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking God.

I replied:

I am intrigued. Can you please explain how it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking God.

You have now responded to this saying, again:

>>> Basically, although there are many questions that we have yet to find full answers to, I personally believe that the Universe and all its contents can be explained without reference to God....

Thank you for responding, but I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with your `explanation.'

Let me explain why:

You now write:

>>> To a certain extent, once an explanation includes God, we reach a wall. If God created man in His image, who are what created God? The usual answer involves either God having always existed or that He was His own first cause.

I hope that you will find the answer to this when you read Edward Feser's `The Last Superstition.' I will not spoil it for you by answering you now, but will be happy to discuss the question with you when you have read the book (which you said you will be purchasing this month, if I remember correctly what you wrote to me last month).

>>> Either way the answer begins to slip away and we admit there will be a whole class of enquiry that will always be closed to us.

This is not offering an alternative explanation to God for the Universe and all its contents.

>>> One alternative answer to the question of where did we come from, explains our presence by suggesting that we evolved from other apes who in turn......... right back to the first life on Earth. The original life may be explained by the process of abiogenesis.

This is not offering an alternative explanation to God for the Universe and all its contents.

>>> I hope that helped explain my initial remark?

Far from it, I am afraid. I believe that it makes your position even worse, because you claimed that "it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking God," and yet you have not even *attempted* to explain what you mean, which, after all, was the whole point of my post to you.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I really thought that you could do better than that.

Best wishes

Paul

Hi Reson

The MIND of God always Was, Is and always Will Be.

Best wishes

Paul

So God is good and evil?

Hi Reson

You say

>>> Origin of the Universes.
There is no great mystery that lies behind the existance of a Universe as religionists would have us BELIEVE.

Please tell me more. If you believe that there is no mystery, you should be able to answer the question that I asked Mark.

>>> A Universe is as simple and natural as a tree.

O yes!?

>>> There is no GREAT MYSTERIOUS BEING who created the Universe

Then tell me your own explanation!

>>> and went off some place never to be seen again.

When, apart from in Jesus Christ, was He seen in the first place?

>>> We have never been taught that just as all living beings have a nature of their own passed on to them by Absolute Nature, Absolute Nature itself has a Nature which is called THE NATURE OF NATURE.

I am not sure what you mean by all of this.

Anyway, I look forward to reading your own explanation of the universe, without mystery, and without God.

Best wishes

Paul

Hi Reson

So God is Good.

Best wishes

Paul

A bit of a Schizo, depending on what mood he is in? Ok, So "Who created or where did the MIND of God come from?

So your God was sitting in darkness. With his Angels. Out of boredom fed up with the Angels playing their harps. He decided to create a world called humans. Who defy him. He kills them and does all forms of wickedness to them. Decides to send his son to redeem all your sins by letting him die a gruesome death. Judt to show how powerful he is. All a test. Yet it grieves his heart at his creation. If God was all knowing. Would he of not known this was going to happen? your answer will be freewill? Lol!!?

Is God evil?

Hi Paul,

Sorry you found my post disappointing. I did not say that "I" personally was able to explain the Universe and everything in it. Rather that we, as a species, will find answers to all those questions without any reference to God. My argument was; that saying "God did it" provides an answer but does not increase our knowledge. To find the real cause of the Big Bang that created our Universe will. Similarly, centuries of saying "God created man" provided an answer but we have learnt a lot more since the advent of palaeontology.

When Galileo suggested that the Bible was incorrect in describing the Earth as "immovable" he was given a rather stark choice of recanting or suffering the consequences. Again the Church had an answer, but had we stayed with that model we would not have made the marvellous advances in Cosmology that has increased our knowledge.

I hope to get a copy of The Last Superstition later this month and look forward to discussing the points raised.

Cheers
Mark

What has peking man got to do with your wondrous plan? :-)

Paul D: Can you please explain how it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking God.

We can but try, Paul. What exactly is it you would like explained? Can you be specific?

Paul: Sorry to be so blunt, but I really thought that you could do better than that.

I don't see that Mark has done any less badly than yourself in explaining himself. Where, for example, did your God come from and how did He do what you claim He did?

Prove yourself, Mr D. Put up or ...

Hi again Reson

You say

>>> A bit of a Schizo, depending on what mood he is in?

Far from it.

>>> Ok, So "Who created or where did the MIND of God come from?

As I say, God always Was, Is and always Will Be.

>>> So your God was sitting in darkness.

In the Light.

>>> With his Angels.

Also in the Light.

>>> Out of boredom fed up with the Angels playing their harps. He decided to create a world called humans.

He took His time. 13.7 billion years of planned evolution climaxing in man and peaking in Jesus Christ.

>> Who defy him.

All apart from Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, yes.

>>> He kills them

He offers them eternal life and joy.

>>> and does all forms of wickedness to them.

They often do it to themselves.

>>> Decides to send his son to redeem all your sins by letting him die a gruesome death.

Correct.

>>> Judt to show how powerful he is.

Not sure what you mean. But He is all-powerful, Almighty in fact.

>>> All a test.

Life is a sort of test, yes, with a truly wonderful reward for those that pass it. Not that difficult either.

>>> Yet it grieves his heart at his creation.

God's Creation is good. It is man's sin that grieves His heart.

>>> If God was all knowing. Would he of not known this was going to happen?

Yes.

>>> your answer will be freewill?

God gives man his wondrous freedom, or free will, yes. And we should thank Him for it, often.

>>> Lol!!?

It's good to be joyful. I wish this for you now and for all eternity.

Best wishes

Paul

Hi Reson

No.

Best wishes

Paul

Paul: The MIND of God always Was, Is and always Will Be.

That is all very well but you don't explain anything. Making statements without anything to back them up is not exactly helpful, my friend.

Hi Mark

Thanks for that.

However, you did originally claim:

>>> I am almost certain that there is no God as it is possible to explain our Universe without invoking Him.

You now say:

>>> I did not say that "I" personally was able to explain the Universe and everything in it.

So now you are backing off. OK. That's you privilege. But you have still not shown anyone else's explanation either, without God.

>>> Rather that we, as a species, will find answers to all those questions without any reference to God.

Sounds like a `faith position' to me.

>>> My argument was; that saying "God did it" provides an answer but does not increase our knowledge.

To know we have a Creator, Who loves us, cares for us, wants our eternal happiness, and offers this to us, is a highly significant piece of knowledge, I would have thought. It even gives a point to your life, I would suggest.

(As I wrote at the top of this page this morning: THANK YOU LORD, .14. And thank You for Your `Law of Unity, Control and Direction' - Your wondrous Plan, Making Your Universe evolve through time, From `simple' to complex - peaking in man.)

>>> To find the real cause of the Big Bang that created our Universe will.

We already have this, as I say: Almighty God.

>>> Similarly, centuries of saying "God created man" provided an answer but we have learnt a lot more since the advent of palaeontology.

We have learnt a lot more, agreed, but nothing of the huge significance of what we already knew, namely that God made man, and made him in His Own image and likeness, so he could reason, love and choose like Him, communicate with Him and his fellow man, and, to a limited extent, even `create' like Him.

>>> When Galileo suggested that the Bible was incorrect in describing the Earth as "immovable" he was given a rather stark choice of recanting or suffering the consequences. Again the Church had an answer, but had we stayed with that model we would not have made the marvellous advances in Cosmology that has increased our knowledge.

The Catholic priest, Canon Copernicus, had something to say on this question a few decades before Galileo, I believe.

>>> I hope to get a copy of The Last Superstition later this month and look forward to discussing the points raised.

Me too.

Best wishes

Paul

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