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Initial post: 28 Jun 2012 08:03:17 BDT
What's your belief on will/do/can atheists go to Heaven; do you believe they can go or do they just get an automatic ticket to Hell ??

I know this has come up elsewhere, but from what I remember it's one of those side conversations in another topic and I can't find it again lol

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 08:42:27 BDT
It's an interesting question and one which, as you point out, atheists cannot answer.

I hope the thread takes off, as I'd like to hear the differing religious views.

Hugh.

Posted on 28 Jun 2012 09:02:42 BDT
Seems like it's too early for the theists to be up and posting atm ;)

I admit it's purely selfish reasons; my friend died last week and was an atheist. I believe in Heaven and Hell and all that jazz and would like to think that if they do exist that he will have gone to Heaven. He was a good person and imo doesn't deserve to go to Hell. I think that the person you are is more important than what you do or don't believe; you can have an atheist who is a great person, charitable, kind etc and a religious person who goes to Church every Sunday and is an absolute monster to all around them. It doesn't seem fair or just to me that they would end up in Hell and Heaven respectively, when the aforementioned is more deserving of a spot on the clouds than the latter.

Will keep my fingers crossed for some other opinions =)

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 09:10:46 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Jun 2012 09:12:01 BDT
Well, your beliefs, while reasonable, were declared heretical in mainstream Catholicism "in 418 at the Council of Carthage."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagianism

Enjoy.

P.S. Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

Hugh.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 09:49:32 BDT
Acts5v29 says:
Good morning Kodokushi,

===
I admit it's purely selfish reasons; my friend died last week and was an atheist. I believe in Heaven and Hell and all that jazz and would like to think that if they do exist that he will have gone to Heaven. He was a good person and imo doesn't deserve to go to Hell. I think that the person you are is more important than what you do or don't believe; you can have an atheist who is a great person, charitable, kind etc and a religious person who goes to Church every Sunday and is an absolute monster to all around them. It doesn't seem fair or just to me that they would end up in Hell and Heaven respectively, when the aforementioned is more deserving of a spot on the clouds than the latter.
===

We all know that Heaven and Hell have become the carrot and stick between believers and non-believers - even amongst believers. But please don't worry about your atheist friend, and this is why:

The view of God's purpose has been skewed for many, many centuries into one of a sudden day of judgement to take the unwary (or unconvinced) by surprise, but that is not true. God's purpose is for us to learn that we as a race need Him, and when we do He will come to our rescue - en masse, as a race. The issue will not be belief or religion or even whether we are good or bad, but will be a response to our need alone as a race. Thereafter, at His intervention, everyone will have the same proof of God. Whoever decides to ignore Him thereafter will have made a decision on perfect knowledge, not on a lack of proof - and since the 1st century we have lived with a lack of Divine intervention except for the Holy Spirit in those who already love God. This being God's intention, those who have died since then and who sincerely did not believe in God will not be "damned" but will return in the resurrection of the good and the bad.

I hope this is helpful, but the book Divine Rescue from Mankind's Final Crisis explains this beautifully - or email me through my profile and I will point you to a PDF version in English and Japanese.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 10:23:35 BDT
Morning Kod. Jim Guest told me the answer which I think is best. He told me those who hadnt heard the Gospel would get their choice at the pearly gates (whether they want to believe or not) a nice easy descision, given God is there infront of you. Therefore, abirigini's and other remote populations get to make their choice after they die.

Because we live in crappy, religion-in-your-face populations, we have heard the gospel, and have to choose what to believe amongst the thousands of religions out there for ourselves..... oh and one more thing, if we get it wrong we go to hell....

I'd rather have not been informed.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 10:33:54 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Jun 2012 10:37:11 BDT
gille liath says:
Hi KK.

If you'd been asking purely speculatively I wouldn't have answered this. As it is: if there's a hell, I don't believe anyone will be sent there because of their beliefs, as long as these were arrived at and held with sincerity and goodwill. And if there's a heaven, I believe anyone who has done their best by their own lights will get there.

In fact, I hope that even the rest of us who don't meet that standard might get an official pardon and be let off at the last minute; for 'with man it is impossible, but to God all things are possible'.

Posted on 28 Jun 2012 12:08:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Jun 2012 12:09:17 BDT
Spin says:
I believe "Heaven" and "hell" to be, not places, but rather the nature of the very last thought one has before one expires. A life lived well will result in thoughts of contentment and completion, (Heaven) and a life wasted will result in thoughts of regret and anguish (Hell). Just as we personify the physical world in terms of a God, so we actualise states-of-mind as being "heaven" or "Hell"; accepting death or fearing it, dying in peace or in conflict. And such thoughts are common to both theists and atheists. It is therefore not a question as to whether atheists can go to Heaven, but whether any of us can die peacefully in the knowledge our life was productive, full and joyful.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:13:14 BDT
Bull, what if you were a good person but murdered horribly, your last thought isn't going to be a nice one is it?

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:19:23 BDT
And what if you die while suffering from severe dementia? You might not even remember your life let alone whether it was a good life. Your belief doesn't really stand up.

Posted on 28 Jun 2012 12:21:17 BDT
G. Heron says:
You are born and later you die. Try and do the best you can with the bit in between.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:32:58 BDT
Spin says:
Sam: Even those suffering dementia have thoughts, even though those thoughts may be conflicted and confused (as far as we know, that is. There is no way to tell the inner thoughts of a person with dementia). Such a death, where ones thoughts are confused and conflicted indicates a life that has suffered, regardless of whether the person consciously realises that or not. That is why we fear dementia, is it not? The loss of conscious reasoning and awareness. Surely dying in such a manner is "Hell".

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:37:37 BDT
Spin says:
Pop: A good person who murders "horribly", as you put it, is no longer a "good" person. And depending on the details and circumstances of the crime, that person will either die content or appalled at his/her actions. As I said previously, it ones thoughts about ones life, not the life itself, that determines a peaceful or tormented death. We al know what is right and what is wrong...we spend our time arguing over justification for actions, not thier actual moral worth.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:40:05 BDT
richard says:
Spin,

i think Popcorn was saying that if a good person died a horrible death their last thoughts would not be nice not that a good person went and murdered someone horribly.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:40:20 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Jun 2012 12:41:33 BDT
You have misunderstood. I said ---->>>>> "what if you were a good person but MURDERED horribly" meaning, you, the good person were murdered horribly, lets say for being too nice to a nasty dictator.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:41:22 BDT
Spin says:
G: Indeed. We spend time arguing over what happens when we die, where we go when we no longer exist, but we never question what happened before we existed, or where we were before we existed. There was a time when I did not exist and there will be a longer time when I do not exist. This is it.This is "my" time. And I intend to live it to the best of my ability.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:50:34 BDT
Last edited by the author on 28 Jun 2012 12:52:23 BDT
Luddite Joe says:
Hi Spin
I think Pop means a good person who is murdered not a good person who commits a murder.

Edit: Wow triple post !

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 12:55:51 BDT
Spin says:
Pop: Apologies, but yor post reads "a good person who murdered horribly". So in reply to that, a person whoe last thoughts are an awareness of pain and terror is obviously experiencing "hell" (unless that person is a masochist in which case he has achieved "heaven")

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 13:02:07 BDT
So in reply to that, a person whoe last thoughts are an awareness of pain and terror is obviously experiencing "hell" - Exactly, but what if the victim was a good person? Why do they deserve that?

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 13:16:34 BDT
Spin says:
Pop: Why do any of us "deserve" anything? Answer: we don't. Thats just the way life is. We are not guarenteed a safe, happy life. Nobody "deserves" good or bad things happening to them, these things happen. We do not ask why we "deserve" our plans for a day at the beach to be scuppered by bad weather, do we? These things happen. To talk of "deserving" is to assume the world is being controlled by a greater authority ie: God.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 04:34:44 BDT
light says:
Hi Kodokushi,

Jesus said, "In my father's house there are many rooms."

I don't believe in god in a traditional sense, but that the concept of god is beyond our comprehension and we will never completely understand god while we are in the physical body. God has no doctrine that he judges people by, only people use doctrine to do that.

I believe that all people go to a place that resinates with their consciousness while they were on earth, regardless of what religion or no religion they adhered to. There are many rooms in heaven as Jesus said, each one is relevant to a person's deeds the bible says that a person is judged by his actions and every single word they uttered.

A loving god wouldn't send someone to eternal hell because they didn't believe in doctrine or god. They go to where they belong they go to an equal state of how they lived their lives. Atheists or religious are the same in god's eyes, he looks at everyone's heart and mind.

I believe that your friend, who was an atheist, will go to a place that he prepared for himself by living the life he lived.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 04:43:49 BDT
light says:
Kodo,

A few years ago I was a Sunday School Teacher and one of my first grade students told me that her grandmother died and was in hell because she didn't accept Jesus into her heart, that's what her parents told her.

All the students were looking at me and waitng for my comment, I didn't want to go against what her parents told her but I also didnt want her to think that her grandmother was in eternal hell either, so I told her that only god knows the heart. I think that satifisfied the children without challanging the parents position.

Some people think that earth is hell and it is heaven to get out of here.

I don't think that god is superficial and I could not imagine that he would send everyone to hell because Adam and Eve sinned first.

Heaven and hell can be viewed as states of mind, that's why all religions preach about inner-transformation and living by the fruits of the spirit, Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfullness, self-control, forgivness, repentance, letting go of hatred, bitterness, jealousy, greed......

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 04:47:52 BDT
light says:
gille,

We are not so different as you think, I have a plaque in my room in eye's view that says:

With god all things are possible.

Our paths may be different but the spirit is united.

I agree with your post 100%

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 19:40:07 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 Jun 2012 22:14:15 BDT
gille liath says:
Sure. It's not because of our differences that I said what I said (on the other thread); it's because of our similarities.

That's not to say, unfortunately, that I can agree with *your* post 100%. ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Jun 2012 19:57:57 BDT
Jim Guest says:
True.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  38
Total posts:  306
Initial post:  28 Jun 2012
Latest post:  12 Jul 2012

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