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Fath is not a virtue


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Initial post: 21 Feb 2013 13:18:56 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Feb 2013 13:32:43 GMT
G. Heron says:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21505191

What utter utter nonsense. It is no surprise that the callers think their faith can remove diseases as it has already removed their critical faculties.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 13:31:11 GMT
AJ Murray says:
In an episode broadcast on 4 January, on channel 591 on the Sky platform, a diabetic caller named Bode, from Leyton in east London, telephoned the programme. Bishop Simon told him to lay his hand on his leg and said: "I cause diabetes to die in your body. I lose you and declare you set free from the power of diabetes. Thank you heavenly father for this miracle right now over your life in Jesus's name."

Bode was then asked to repeat the words "it is well with me".

~

How does diabetes die? The Bishop shows an alarming ignorance of modern medicine and what diabetes is and how it affects people. He appears to think it is a pathogen, or worse the name of a demon.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 13:34:25 GMT
G. Heron says:
AJ Murray

"Bode was then asked to repeat the words "it is well with me"."

Well if you don't say all the magic words the spell won't work will it?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:11:25 GMT
Bellatori says:
Izzy wizzy lets get bizzy

followed by

abracadabra

That should do it. I have now cured all those terrible diseases that God did not create in the first place...

Posted on 21 Feb 2013 14:18:17 GMT
Bellatori says:
Did you know that Fath means fathom apparently? Were we after some sort of naval reference here?

Posted on 21 Feb 2013 14:24:59 GMT
Spin says:
When people who object to the concept of "Faith" do they include their faith in those they love and who love them? Will threy argue that have no faith in their wives, husbands, sons and daughters?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:34:59 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Feb 2013 14:35:30 GMT
G. Heron says:
Spin

"When people who object to the concept of "Faith" do they include their faith in those they love and who love them? Will threy argue that have no faith in their wives, husbands, sons and daughters? "

There is a differences between this and religious faith as normally the existence of wife, husband, son or daughter is not in question. Also a lot of people have had total and complete faith in their spouse right up till the time they found the letter waiting for them on the kitchen table or got home early one day and could here sounds coming from the bedroom.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:37:22 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Spin- does your wife exist and be shown to do so? If yes, go away and try and think why she may be different to a god.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:40:05 GMT
J. Forbes says:
She must be divine to put up with what she has to.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:42:19 GMT
Spin says:
G: As you are an atheist, how do you know there is a difference between a faith in deity and a faith in ones family? Further, ones present faith in someone or something has nothing to do with a future loss of faith.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:44:06 GMT
Spin says:
CA: My point concerns "Faith", not existence. Think about it.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:44:43 GMT
Dan Fante says:
A deity may exist but its existence isn't tangible in the way a loved one's is. There, that was easy.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:46:12 GMT
Spin says:
DAn: In what way is faith in a persons loved ones "Tangible"?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:48:03 GMT
"My point concerns "Faith", not existence. Think about it."

The cornerstone of faith in a deity is faith that it exists at all. If you didn't have faith in it's existence anything added on top of that is rather redundant.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:51:08 GMT
Dan Fante says:
It isn't and I never said it was. The person is tangible though, whereas the deity is not. So, whilst in both cases the faith itself is not tangible, in one instance the faith is in a tangible thing whereas in the other it isn't. There's the difference between the two, which is what you asked for. Again, very easy.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 14:55:35 GMT
G. Heron says:
Spin

"Further, ones present faith in someone or something has nothing to do with a future loss of faith. "

Exactly, there is no guarantee that your faith reflects reality.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:00:54 GMT
Spin says:
Sweet: No. Theists do not claim God "exists" in the manner you define existence. Does "love" exist? Does "Love" have a physical reality that you can point to and say "THAT is Love"?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:01:39 GMT
Spin says:
G: But it is no less real.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:07:42 GMT
"Theists do not claim God "exists" in the manner you define existence. Does "love" exist? Does "Love" have a physical reality that you can point to and say "THAT is Love"?"

I didn't define existence. You are the only person so far that appears to be defining existence as being something physical. Emotions exist, they are not physical, although it could be argued that they are caused by physical changes of hormones and chemicals in the body. Gravity exists, and while I'm not a physicist my understanding of it is there is no physical item that you could point to and say "that's gravity". Theists have faith that god exists, whether that is in a tangible or intangible form they have faith that something, which they name god, exists.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:09:21 GMT
Bellatori says:
Does "Love" have a physical reality that you can point to and say "THAT is Love"?"

Interesting point.There are some biochemical activities that were once typed as love...!?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:09:45 GMT
G. Heron says:
Spin

"G: But it is no less real. "

Yes the faith is real, just as the faith of the people in the clip is real but so are the diseases they still have and their faith that they don't have these diseases may cost them their lives.

Posted on 21 Feb 2013 15:17:08 GMT
Spin says:
Sweet: Again I ask you, how do you define "Tangible". (PS: Gravity does not exist. What we call "gravity" is an effect, not an existant "thing")

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:25:08 GMT
"Again I ask you, how do you define "Tangible"."

You didn't ask the first time Spin. I define tangible the same way as the dictionary, that way people generally understand what I mean when I say it, in this case definitions 1 and 4 would be most suitable.

tan·gi·ble/ˈtændʒəbəl/ Show Spelled [tan-juh-buhl] Show IPA
adjective
1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial.
2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
3. definite; not vague or elusive: no tangible grounds for suspicion.
4. (of an asset) having actual physical existence

"(PS: Gravity does not exist. What we call "gravity" is an effect, not an existant "thing")"

I believe any physicist worth their salt would disagree with you there. As I've said several times now something does not need to be a physical object to exist, whether gravity is a physical object or a force it still exists.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:25:31 GMT
Dan Fante says:
If you're going to try and change the subject and draw a poster into a different debate perhaps you should try and be a little more subtle. No need to thank me for the tip by the way ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Feb 2013 15:30:34 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Spin- then you had better provide a better example- think about it.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  26
Total posts:  184
Initial post:  21 Feb 2013
Latest post:  27 Feb 2013

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