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Amazon considers it offensive to describe someone as a homophobe, but is happy to allow homophobic rants on these pages.


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Showing 1-25 of 114 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 7 Apr 2014 07:54:21 BDT
Withnail says:
Not a great advert for Amazon as these discussions are available on google. These boards have been spammed by Paul Boire (Tom M) on a one man mission to rid the world of homosexuality. I would like Amazon to seriously consider what message they are conveying to their customers by allowing this man to use these boards in this way.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 08:05:23 BDT
Perhaps they don't think he is a homophobe!

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 08:08:45 BDT
Withnail says:
Which presents Amazon in a pretty poor light. BTW I don't think book shops should be moral arbiters. But do think they should consider their public image.

Posted on 7 Apr 2014 08:46:09 BDT
But bookshops don't normally host discussions like this.

I think Amazon primarily set up these forums as a means of promoting books. To that extent Tom is a model student - he fooled me into buying Feser's book, which I found offensive from the beginning. I persevered, but didn't actually find it easy to understand - I ended up buying Philosophy For Dummies (UK Edition) to help me (that's my shameless plug :)

I tend not to get involved in the discussions, because it doesn't take long before I am accused of homophobia and I think that is the reason why so many anti-Tom messages are deleted - because they are specifically targeting one or more other posters and calling them offensive names, whereas Tom (from the few posts I have read of his) is very generic in his posts. They are not generally aimed at one specific person, but at a group of people, nor does he call them names or anything, just tries to show that they are wrong.

It does, however seem to be a unhealthy obessession with him though.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 08:57:21 BDT
Withnail says:
I find it rather offensive to be told by Tom that I am personally responsible for every person who has ever died of aids, or for every foetus that has been aborted. But I guess for some that is less offensive that being called a homophobe.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 09:12:03 BDT
I have to say that I am never offended by Poopsey. Who can take a total whackadoodle seriously. ?

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 09:19:39 BDT
Withnail says:
Hate is always offensive, regardless of how witless or charmless the author.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 09:49:17 BDT
Norm Deplume says:
Wayne,

"They are not generally aimed at one specific person, but at a group of people, nor does he call them names or anything, just tries to show that they are wrong."

He does not try to show anyone to be wrong. He assumes they are, and calls them ignorant or dumb for daring to hold other opinions. He neither makes a case against those opinions nor defends his own.

From his posts, I believe that he is lacking in reason, humility, tolerance, understanding and education at anything more than a superficial level.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 10:27:47 BDT
But Poopsey LOVES gays... He has even got a gay friend.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 10:40:46 BDT
Ian says:
"Tom... is very generic in his posts. They are not generally aimed at one specific person, but at a group of people"

I'm sure there must be a word to describe somebody who hates/is angry with a group or groups of people (most of who they have never met). What could it be?

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 10:46:59 BDT
John Cena says:
Atheist?

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 10:50:34 BDT
Ian says:
Well that would be one word; if you define atheists as a group of people who hate all gods.
As opposed to most religious people who hate all gods but make an exception for one God who is apparently a lovely chap who really exists- not like those other gods.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 10:56:06 BDT
8-}}

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:06:26 BDT
But are you being personally told that. Is he accusing you PERSONALLY of infecting every person of aids? Or of aborting a foetus? Or is it a generic accusation, of which you include yourself.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:09:58 BDT
There might be, but it is not a phobia, which is an irrational fear (of course the hate might be derived from that, but is only a possibility), nor is it then right to assume that everyone who disagrees with someone else's lifestyle does so out of either hatred or fear.

From the obsession that Tom M shows on the subject, I'd certainly think that he is in the hatred or fear category, but it does not follow that every religious person is also, nor even the majority.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:10:21 BDT
Superb!

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:10:47 BDT
Withnail says:
Just one example -

In reply to your post on 22 Dec 2011 01:47:57 GMT
Tom M says:
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Withnail
You really aren't worthy of a reply.

Not a single poster here who would certainly be qualified as ignorant enough to be a 'new' atheist has ever protested the killing of children by abortion.

They ARE the abortion crowd.

You have been answered honestly but you have no interest in the truth.

Silence under the law means assent.

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=21265

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In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:12:08 BDT
I think Cgg's point is spot on. Not that all atheists are like that, but one only has to be around these forums for a short while to see that a number of atheists have a hatred of the people who follow any kind of god.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:20:52 BDT
Withnail,

He only mentions your name in the beginning, and his only direct accusation against you is 'you really aren't worthy of a reply' (doesn't stop him from doing it worst luck) and 'you have been answered honestly...' (one might argue that this is untrue).

Notice the '...They are...' It means you are only part of this group if you choose to see it that way it is not a direct accusation which would go something like this...

Withnail has never protested the killing of children by abortion. You are a part of the abortion crowd.

There are a number of posters over the years who make similar generic accusations against theists/christians. Such as defining them as homophobic. Object to it, by all means (I do) but try not to take it so personally.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:32:16 BDT
Withnail says:
I am not taking it personally - I hold Amazon to account for their poor ability to weed out hate speech in their posts. Tom is Tom and cannot change who he is - but Amazon should not being giving him the space to spread his hatred further. Let him go and find some little corner of the internet where he can talk with people with red crosses on their chest and pillow cases over their heads. I find him deeply offensive and I find Amazon's attitude towards him to be bizarre.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 11:34:40 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 7 Apr 2014 11:35:56 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 12:08:28 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Apr 2014 12:36:22 BDT
Ian says:
"a number of atheists have a hatred of the people who follow any kind of god."

The problem with trying to avoid looking prejudiced while expressing your prejudice is you end up making meaningless statements like this.

Prefacing sweeping generalisations with "I'm sure not all <x group> are like this but" is indistinguishable from the classic "I'm not racist/sexist/homophobic.etc, but..." which doesn't make the statement that follows (or the person) any less racist, sexist or homophobic.
If you think most/all atheists hate the people who follow any kind of god, then say so.

I'm sure:
- a number of Catholics hate Jews.
- a number of homosexuals love Liza Minnelli.
- a number of women enjoy housework.
- a number of atheists hate all people who worship any kind of god.

A number can be anything from 1 to 7 billion, none of the above statements have any meaning at all - unless you were to imply (because you wouldn't like to say it outright and appear to be making a sweeping statement about a group of people - which is the basis of all prejudice) that you believed this statement to be true for most or all of the group named.

I could probably name at least one person who falls into each of the categories above. I don't believe they are representative of the rest of the group.

I think CGG's point is no better than prejudice and representative of only a tiny minority of atheists; I know more Catholics who hate Protestants than I know atheists that hate theists.

But at least he had the guts to express his prejudice openly and honestly rather than trying to hide it and rendering it meaningless.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 12:17:38 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Apr 2014 12:34:08 BDT
Kleist says:
Hi Withnail,

I am the last person to defend Tom's homophobia and bigotry. And I have often found it annoying that while Amazon delete people for specifying his hypocrisy, dishonesty and bigotry they do not delete him for trying to spread hatred and lies.

That said I often feel that they should leave Tom's posts on display because they graphically show what kind of person he is. When he is trying to make himself ingratiating it is easy to simply point to these posts to show how false his 'caring' is.

If there are those who are stupid enough to find his posts acceptable then I hold out little hope for them.

Perhaps Mr Burchell is right: Amazon don't think they are homophobic. Just as my grandad could not understand that he was being racist. Such ignorance is not an excuse, but it is one possible explanation. Maybe they don't know what 'homophobia' means. Or perhaps they simply don't care.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 12:19:25 BDT
Norm Deplume says:
Does this mean that if you vehemently disagree with, say, members of the Tea Party in the USA, that makes you an atheist?

What about those opposed to gay marriage? Must they all be atheists?

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Apr 2014 12:37:46 BDT
Withnail says:
I am fed up with his bile. I think that his hatred and bigotry have no place in a civilised world, and I am annoyed that whoever is reap resenting Amazon thinks that he is ok to use their site to spread his hatred. I would like Amazon to take this seriously, and for once to show some strength of character. This is nothing to do with Tom, I have no intention of trying to change him. I would just prefer not to have a discussion board completely bombarded on one very nasty view on one very unimportant issue.

W
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  14
Total posts:  114
Initial post:  7 Apr 2014
Latest post:  9 Apr 2014

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