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Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?


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Initial post: 18 Mar 2014 00:38:24 GMT
Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.

If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam. The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.

The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.

That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects), sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays. That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.

If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion and is not worthy of the support of moral people. Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.

As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL

Posted on 18 Mar 2014 11:57:10 GMT
No...

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2014 12:34:59 GMT
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Posted on 18 Mar 2014 22:05:16 GMT
Ronald Craig says:
A little.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2014 22:59:45 GMT
Seems that none of you three care much about the equality of women and gays and the fact that Christianity and Islam do not recognize half the world as equal.

Am I right?

Regards
DL

Posted on 19 Mar 2014 00:13:32 GMT
Anita says:
I don't give a toss about rights of women and I don't give a toss about gays at all.

Loved this though:

"...sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays..."

Being included into humanity feels not so bad to think about it... only as a woman, not as gay, but still...

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 00:26:24 GMT
Anita

I am not sure just when society downgraded women and gays to second class citizens but the world will celebrate when the so called men of this world start acting like real men and not discriminating against women due to womb envy and nothing else.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 01:16:58 GMT
Ronald Craig says:
Why are you attacking me with that silliness? I simply answered your question: yes, I've looked into Gnostic Christianity a little.

The Abrahamic religions are outdated nonsense. They're responsible for much of the oppression of women and homosexuals in the world. I really don't care which flavor of Christianity you prefer, I'm for chucking out the whole system.

There, that's my position.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 15:06:04 GMT
Not an attack. Just a looking for your views.

It will be impossible to chuck it all as you forget that most of religions are just pandering to our tribal or groupish instincts and have little to do with beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

That being the case, I see Gnostic Christianity as the greatest hope for those who believe in equality and who still need the fellowship and tribalism of religions.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 18:18:35 GMT
My sentiments pretty much, the little benefit it provides as a comfort blanket for those not prepared to confront reality is not worth the insidious prejudice and emotionally crippling dogma that usually accompanies so much of it.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 18:45:15 GMT
DL,

From your post I'd hazard a guess that I know more about Gnostic Christianity than you do and I know very little. What I do know however is that it is a blanket term for dozens of Christian offshoots that bear no resemblance to Orthodoxy and often little resemblance to each other.

Nor are the gnostic groups in any way in favour of equality or universalism. I've forgotten which one it is but one of the gnostic gospels specifically says that the only way Mary will be allowed into the kingdom of God is if she becomes a man: neither universalist nor equal.

Rather than getting your info on gnostic christianity from The DaVinci Code, I'd suggest Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 18:51:27 GMT
We have no dogma. We have myths.

And I think inequality and discrimination is way more crippling to women and gays than thinking of religions as myths.

Ask a woman or gay.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 19:02:50 GMT
W D

That story speaks of respect and not of gaining heaven or not.

It happens that in Gnostic myths, Mary plays a larger role than all the other apostles. She was Jesus' wife to many.

You will note that the bible says the same of turning women into men.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Karen Armstrong in this clip at about the 15 min mark tells you how Gnostics and Jews used to change the wording of scriptures just to promote discussions and new ways of thinking of God.

Gnostic Christians were infamous for that. The gospel you speak of is a great example of that.

A Gnostic Christian principle is that we all have a spark of God within us and that includes women and that is why we believe in full equality and any religion that does not recognize the value and equality of women and gays is not a moral religion.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 19:11:05 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Mar 2014 19:16:26 GMT
In reply to your post on 19 Mar 2014 18:51:27 GMT
Greatest I am says:
We have no dogma. We have myths. And I think inequality and discrimination is way more crippling to women and gays than thinking of religions as myths. Ask a woman or gay.

Not sure I follow you to be honest. I was referring to religion in general terms. I also despise discrimination and inequality, so your post makes no sense there either, and you seem to be implying it's an either or scenario? As if wanting equality for women and homosexuals on the one hand, and thinking of religion as a myth on the other, makes them mutually exclusive? I happen to want equality for everyone, and universal equal rights, I also happen to think religions are complete myths, since there is no credible evidence.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 19:33:06 GMT
Spin says:
CW; Indeed. "Gnostic Christianity" is a blanket term referring to the various sects and cults who claim to have a "secret knowledge" of Christianity. Hence the term "Gnostic" (from "Gnosis" meaning "to know"). Gnostic Christianity is composed of those who are the Christian equivalent of the Jewish Qabballists; (a belief that interprets sacred texts in a mystical manner) and those who, for some reason, deny that the accepted canon of Gospel texts represent the true doctrine of Christ, and prefer to believe in those texts dismissed by the organised church as "heresy". I am not sure which camp DL falls into.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 19:57:45 GMT
Dr S

Good and I agree.

That is why we say to think of all Gods as myths.

We have no religious argument but if you ever want to see universal equality then promote Gnostic Christianity to those in religions as those other religions are the ones pushing women and gays into 2nd class citizen status.

For their evil to grow, all good people need do is not fight them or promote a better theology like Gnostic Christianity.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:03:31 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Mar 2014 20:04:25 GMT
Spin says:
Great; If you have no religious argument, how can you claim to be "Gnostic", as the Gnostics, by their very label, claim to have an argument that is based on a secret knowledge. Is this doctrine so secret you cannot tell us of it? If so, how do you expect to convert others? You are posting nonsense, and you 'know' it.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:05:03 GMT
Spin

Your history is about true for the earlier Gnostics. Not the Gnostic Christians as they had to wait for Christianity to pop up. I think by then the Jewish Kabbalists had about died out. That or Constantine did to them what he tried to do with Gnostic Christianity. Kill it completely.

My Gnosticism is modern but based on the Gnostics who had the demiurge as part of their myths.

For enlightenment the myth or tradition does not matter. It is using it for inward seeking that matters.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:07:54 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Mar 2014 20:08:48 GMT
Spin says:
Great; Ok, so please explain to me what "modern Gnosticism" is and what its beliefs are (other than equality for gays and women, which you have already vehemently mentioned)

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:13:08 GMT
Last edited by the author on 19 Mar 2014 20:14:41 GMT
My "we" was for Dr S and I only.

All the religions of the day had parables for the masses and a secret part for the initiates. Even Jesus of the bible. Do try to modernize your thinking. Think of it as grade school for the masses and the university course for initiates.

Do you not know how the old religions and mystery schools worked?

They were all about gaining members and their cash for temples. Except the Gnostics who could do with house churches as they did not need bishops or a priestly hierarchy.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:21:57 GMT
Spin says:
Greatest: I am very familiar with "Mystery schools". The problem seems to be that they are a mystery to you...=) Lay claim to "Gnosticism" as a description of your beliefs, by all means. But, believe me, you are not "Gnostic".

Posted on 19 Mar 2014 20:24:55 GMT
Spin

Let me give you this for starters.

Spirituality, seeking and finding God, is all about internalizing a myth.

The Bible is a fantastic book. Even with all the harm that we have done to it, its plagiarized pages have still maintained some of their original message for us.

In that sense, of being able to internalize something, literalism is fantastic and I give credit to you right wing Christians, --- nutty as you are, --- who can take the scriptures literally. The problem is that you have forgotten that they are myths and bring a rude message to the non-Christian public. IMO.

That has always been the Gnostic Christian position and that is why Christians murdered Gnostic Christians and burned our scriptures when Constantine bought Christianity. Christians take the evil in the bible and call it good while Gnostic Christians call those issues the evil that they are.

The original Jesus of the bible was a Universalist and in that day, that made him a Gnostic Christian who are automatically Universalists as we, like the Bible's Jesus, believe that we all have a connection to God from within us. If we are all connected to God then we have no need of a savior.

Catholic means universal and Protestant Christianity and the Catholic Churches are not Universalists and are not therefore Catholic the way Gnostic Christians are Catholic. Gnostic are the true followers of the real Jesus. If it can be said that Jesus is real at all. To me he is just another in the book, Hero of 1000 faces. As writer Joseph Campbell would say.

Literalists tend to dumb themselves down because they do not seek God as they become idol worshipers of Godinabook. They do not read the other traditions that much and do not see how much of them match what Jesus actually taught. Muslims are just as mentally intolerant, in religious terms. All fundamental and literalist are mentally intolerant in religious terms. That is part of the nuttiness of tribalism which is basically what religions are. That is why they are basically evil. They divide instead of uniting.

Jesus Knew that it was all about the interpretation of myths.

I do not have what it takes to teach you anything. You would have to think you had something to learn in the first place and you do not. If you are the usual closed minded idol worshiper, you will not bother to watch the gentleman in this clip who can teach you something. But not seeking God the way Jesus asked you to do, --- is not enough to stop your idol worship of Godinabook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

It is a pity that so many souls will not experience their Godliness. Even the poor pathetic nutty right wing want to be saved people could have been saved if they would have remembered that finding God means internalizing a myth and not turning to idol worship the way they have.

The Christian part of my Gnostic Christian label says that my first duty is to Christianity and Catholicism as well as Islam and Jewry.
My friends.

If you seek God, remember that all the Gods are myths till you find the God connection within you.

You will not find God if you continue to read your bible literally.

Read the word of Jesus literally that are given to you here though, and you will be saved. Even though you do not need saving.

If you find your God within you, give him or her my message.
The greatest evil that we allow to persist is the inequality of women.

Admit that women have a Goddess within the same way you have a God within you and for God's sake, do your duty to your tribe and religion and demand that women be given their rightful equal rights within society. If you do not, then that is proof that your religion has corrupted your morals.

What will save you is to become a Gnostic Christian.

That is direct from Jesus. The Jesus within me.

Regards
DL

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:32:44 GMT
Spin says:
Great: The phrase "internalising a myth" seems to be more an "A-gnostic" comment rather than a "Gnostic" one.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:34:23 GMT
Spin says:
PS; Genuine Gnostics do not refer to the accepted Gospels to defend their beliefs.

In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2014 20:41:48 GMT
Spin

"Great: The phrase "internalising a myth" seems to be more an "A-gnostic" comment rather than a "Gnostic" one. "

They do not usually place themselves in the seeker of God ranks and I am not aware of them trying to or promoting the internalizing of a myth.

Happy to bow to your greater experience though.

Regards
DL
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  21
Total posts:  246
Initial post:  18 Mar 2014
Latest post:  11 Apr 2014

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