Customer Discussions > religion discussion forum

Humanity our common ground.......a thread of Respect.


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 42 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 21 Apr 2013 17:04:44 BDT
kraka says:
"Will it work"?
"I doubt it"
"Shall we give it a try"?
"Not if you got great expectations"
"Oh! ye of little faith, here goes anyway"

Welcome everyone. AN EXPERIMENT.

In a recent reply from Bellatori he reminded me of the term "common ground" a meeting place for people of opposing notions.

I pondered what would be the common ground for atheists and theists and felt that *humanity* must be it. you were a human being before ever becoming atheist or theist or adopting the labels of nationality etc. and regardless of anything that primary status remains until you peg it.

So what does humanity mean, to be human, that thing that binds us and unites us all under one heading. Is it being Humane to each other in spite of our differences, because if we allow our differences the upper hand we become fragmented and dis-united,

I have read here on some threads that atheists alternative to religion is humanity and a moral code, which is what i think remains in scriptures if you remove all the spiritual stuff. And what you believe should either be an extension of that humanity or a way of realizing it.

My personal interpretation of being humane is recognition of kindred human beings and to respect them as such with understanding and kindliness. But in this i fail often.

Ah! yes the EXPERIMENT?

To see if we can collectively discuss our humanity from our individual perspectives, atheist and theist in a humane way with respect towards each other and to seek common ground.

Your only weapon is respect, all other verbal WMDs to be left at home. So please no sniping.

"So how long do you think it will last"
"Not long, that's if it it even gets started"
"Don't be such a pessimist"

Posted on 21 Apr 2013 17:50:04 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'So what does humanity mean, to be human, that thing that binds us and unites us all under one heading.' To be human is to suffer, dear boy.

'Is it being Humane to each other in spite of our differences, because if we allow our differences the upper hand we become fragmented and dis-united' Yes it is being humane, and yes we polarise and divide and hate when we only notice our differences. Just look at these 'discussion' forums!

'To see if we can collectively discuss our humanity from our individual perspectives, atheist and theist in a humane way with respect towards each other and to seek common ground.' Ah, a voice of reason cries out in the wilderness; mutual respect, tolerance, consideration for the other person's point of view even if it wildly opposes my own; all these things make us better human beings. Any keyboard tough guy can be brave, nasty, acerbic, unpleasant and offensive hidden safe and anonymously behind their PC screen. I try to have two rules on forums such as this: one, don't make unsubstantiated comments about people even if they even violently disagree with you, and two, only say to someone on them what you would say to their face in the real world. Yes, no one is perfect and we can lose our rag, but it's better for all concerned that we have some morality rather than abusing everyone.

Now then Sport, what do you want to discuss?! ;~)

Posted on 21 Apr 2013 18:25:02 BDT
Heretic says:
There has been an experiment in Community Relations played out in the UK where we tried to celebrate our diversity by letting people from different backgrounds create ghettos where there was little interaction between communities. All this succeeded in achieving was a sort of voluntary apartheid every bit as poisonous as the variety that existed in South Africa until recently (seems only recently). There is always friction between groups when is dumped on top of another especially if once is seen to be preferred over the other. It is only by frequent interaction that communities can get to know each other and sadly the longer it takes the more painful.

There are frequently examples of conflict and misunderstanding in the press which I won't go into because I'm still not sure how far I can go without getting my posts deleted. You all know the kind of stuff I mean, The Daily Mail is a frequent offender.

What I'm trying to get around to is that it is through this kind of forum where people of good intent can come together and discuss things, argue sometimes, have a hissy fit, a tantrum or throw our dummy out of the pram. When we get together, through all the discord we are getting to know each other. Here, unlike a meeting on a shopping street, we get to put our point across without interruption even if it is not accepted.

While it is good if we can get on together it is not a disaster if we cannot. At least we get to think about our own positions (possibly a bit of emergency research) and we have at least to read our 'opponents' point of view.

Here's hoping.

:->>

SWH

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Apr 2013 19:26:07 BDT
T. S. C. says:
Yep, very good points mate.

You wrote: 'There has been an experiment in Community Relations played out in the UK where we tried to celebrate our diversity by letting people from different backgrounds create ghettos where there was little interaction between communities. All this succeeded in achieving was a sort of voluntary apartheid every bit as poisonous as the variety that existed in South Africa until recently (seems only recently).' Many of the new communities came into Working class areas, where there may already have been tensions of one kind or another, competition for jobs, housing, education and so on. Because of this, often any one making the slightest complaint was seen as racist, especially if the person was white and Working class. Some of the new arrivals have different religions, different languages, different cultures and often very different social norms; in short, there was often no meeting of minds at all, only blank confusion leading to indifference leading to hate or distrust; on both sides. I believe that immigration has given us a richer heritage, new foods, new cultures to understand and so on, but I am not naive and I am not one of those PC types who only sees that it was all good. What is immigration about after all? In the end, it is economic, it is, and was, to fill low-wage, low-status and often dead end jobs that even the poorest white Working class person didn't want to do. Of course it is also about keeping wages down too and satisfying the business class who want to make large profits and give nothing back. This is reality.

We need always to see the other person's point of view; any one of us can become self-important, and highly opinionated and be completely wrong as a result. Thank you for adding to what I hope could be a very good debate. :~)

Posted on 21 Apr 2013 19:59:10 BDT
Bellatori says:
It is very difficult, in the heat of argument, not to disrespect the other person. This is unworthy and for that I apologise. Sadly, I suspect I am irredeemably flawed in this respect...

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Apr 2013 20:03:54 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Bellatori says:

It is very difficult, in the heat of argument, not to disrespect the other person.' It can be done though my friend. :~)

'Sadly, I suspect I am irredeemably flawed in this respect... ' I think we are all now and again! ;~)

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Apr 2013 20:14:09 BDT
gille liath says:
Oh no - not George Galloway...?

Posted on 21 Apr 2013 20:54:02 BDT
Henry James says:
A thread of respect - now there is a consummation devoutly to be wished.
My brother has barely a thread for me.

But I am trying. Lord am I trying.

If we remember that Shakespeare's "Ah what fools these mortals be" applies to us all,
then maybe we will be able to address each other with good humour,
if not an overabundance of respect.

I do think it is good to remember that s/he's a lot like me, in spite of her God-belief status.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Apr 2013 02:17:43 BDT
Last edited by the author on 22 Apr 2013 02:19:33 BDT
light says:
Hi Kraka,

A really great song comes to mind, Have you heard it RESPECT which is sang by Aretha Franklin,

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T

.
Respect for each other and everything else, our earth, animals.... is detrimental for a good life/survival, it's more than survival of the fittest.

thanks light

Posted on 22 Apr 2013 09:12:44 BDT
Spin says:
"Humanity", in the sense of humane behaviour, is an expression of empathy and sympathy. The ability to empathise and sympathise is something unique to homo sapiens and although its source or raison d'etre is debatable, it is no doubt of great value to all life on earth, not just humans.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Apr 2013 09:20:22 BDT
Dr HotFXMan says:
Yet again you pontificate and get it wrong. Empathic behaviour is not unique to humans - as a quick check on the worldwide reference library you have available to you would have revealed.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Apr 2013 21:32:08 BDT
Henry James says:
Ian is correct. MANY animals show empathic behavior, and scientists have shown that it springs from the same brain structures and neurotransmitters as in humans.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 06:47:16 BDT
Spin says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 07:05:15 BDT
Dr HotFXMan says:
More ignorance and prejudice paraded.

I strongly recommend a visit to the Wikipedia you so despise. Your education might just begin.

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 09:42:22 BDT
Dan Fante says:
Did anyone else think of Normski? No? Just me then.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 10:06:44 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Apr 2013 10:07:33 BDT
T. Green says:
Kraka,

Good luck with this forum title :-)

By the way are you talking to yourself at the bottom of your first post?

All the best.

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 10:30:29 BDT
Bellatori says:
Having contributed to a number of threads in Religion over the last few days it struck me quite clearly that when we discuss poetry, education, humour (after a few setbacks) and a few other things that cropped up as digressions or otherwise, the temperature remains quite low. We even manage to be civil to one another! As soon as religion rears its head then things hot up. Out come the swords and knives and the devil take the hindmost. How strange we are !!

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 14:37:46 BDT
I believe the word empathy is a psychology technical term rather than a literate English one. These words are becoming more and more part of our use of language, and they are words which weren't invented when some of us were young. Also, though this isn't a criticism as such, they are American. Other examples are disorientated, traumatised, I could probably think of a few more.

I remember a news report some time ago when an educated, managerial-class British man emerged from a hostage, or was it a plane hijacking situation, he faced a barrage of journalist questions, one of which was 'are you feeling disoriented by your ordeal?' I expect he was, but at the time he could only say 'I don't know what that word means'.

The man was somewhat confused by the question (or should I say disorientated), but actually I can understand that the word means a kind of physical confusion caused by sensory deprivation, however it is semi-medical and I really don't like it's use in everyday language much.

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 14:40:09 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Apr 2013 14:41:07 BDT
The word empathy. Well, in the past you would use words like sympathetic, kindly, considerate. Empathy is more redolent of the US politician who would say 'Ah feel yurr pain!' Which may or may not have been sincere. Sometimes you can't possibly feel someone else's pain because you have no idea what it must be like. They can try to explain, and this might work or might not.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 14:48:03 BDT
Spin says:
CE: The term "empathy" has a variety of meanings depending on the context in which it used. In my previous posts I employ the term in the context of morality or "humanity". It is easy to refute moral arguments which employ terms that science has adopted to describe uniquely biological states. But if one thinks empathy or sympathy, or any psychological faculty resulting in a unique expression of morality, are simply biological states then one has very little to contribute to debates about morality.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 14:57:03 BDT
Anita says:
To be honest, when I hear the word "empathy", I think of science fiction first (eg Asimov's Mule), not of psychology (and not saying anything on psychology in order to avoid offending anyone :) ). The "real", "strong" empathy, as an "emotional equivalent" of telepathy, (and I am not even talking of any possibility to directly "adjust" another person's emotions at will) is next to non-existant in real world, maybe at very low levels, but not reading (feeling) other person's emotions precisely. And that's for the best, I guess

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 15:35:46 BDT
Spin says:
Anita; I disagree, Empathy, the ability to imagine oneself in anothers position is very real. Those who have no empathy are those screwing up this planet.

Posted on 23 Apr 2013 15:38:20 BDT
I'm not debating morality at all, I'm just shopping.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 15:55:27 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Apr 2013 16:15:37 BDT
Spin says:
CE: Morality and ethics are of vital importance to the individual and society only when they affect me or my family. =)

In reply to an earlier post on 23 Apr 2013 16:04:02 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 Apr 2013 16:06:54 BDT
T. S. C. says:
'Bellatori says:

Having contributed to a number of threads in Religion over the last few days it struck me quite clearly that when we discuss poetry, education, humour (after a few setbacks) and a few other things that cropped up as digressions or otherwise, the temperature remains quite low. We even manage to be civil to one another! As soon as religion rears its head then things hot up. Out come the swords and knives and the devil take the hindmost. How strange we are !!'

You have a point, but it depends on who the person is; some people can't exist without conflict, they have to be 'right' and prove the other person 'wrong' and there are a few people on these forums that are exactly like that; they almost froth at the mouth simply because someone has a different opinion to them. I try to avoid them basically. Equally there are people who see things through a prism, be that a religious ideology, or more usually a political ideology be it Left or Right, and no matter what anyone says, you won't budge them from their standpoint or point of view, whether they are right or wrong. I try to see the cold hard facts of something; the facts, dear boy, the facts! Take out all the dogma and see what you have left. Of course, no matter who we are, our opinions are always formed from our background, life experiences, who we associate with, what politics we believe in and vote for, and so on, so no opinion is ever completely value free, and we can all be wrong, every one of us. We can even learn, in the end, from those who disagree with us if we have the humility, and dare-I-say-it, the humour for it.
‹ Previous 1 2 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


Recent discussions in the religion discussion forum

 

This discussion

Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  15
Total posts:  42
Initial post:  21 Apr 2013
Latest post:  25 Apr 2013

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.

Search Customer Discussions