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catholic diocese abuse report- what a surprise.

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Showing 1-25 of 553 posts in this discussion
Initial post: 24 Apr 2013 11:30:40 BDT
C. A. Small says:

One report released, six to go. Usual litany of cover-ups, delaying action and moving abusing priests around.

Let me guess at the excuses- they were the wrong sort of catholics? It is an atheist conspiracy to hurt the catholic church? The catholic church is no worse than other organisations? Have I missed anything out?

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 12:24:46 BDT
Roma says:
Hi Clive
Yes you have. I have not read one post which defends or excuses Catholic Priests' abuse of young people. Neither have I heard a defence of their behaviour in my conversations with family, friends, colleagues. No one is above the law and that therefore includes Catholic priests. They should be tried in exactly the same way that any member of the laity would be and punished accordingly, as should anyone who new of their behaviour and covered it up.

No one is disagreeing with you, yet you seem to imagine they are. Yes, people are arguing that these priests are in the minority and yes they are; that abuse exists in other organisations and yes it does. This does not detract from the heinous behaviour of those priests who are guilty and no one is suggesting it does.

I would just ask you not to find any pleasure in the discovery that some Catholic priests have behaved appallingly. Oddly, this is a trait that I sadly normally associate more with overly zealous religious people. There's a poem by Iain Crichton Smith called The Old Women which talks about how they freely condemn the behaviour of others but how the speaker has heard them, when, witness a tragedy, "weave into their song a terrible holy joy."

We must all work together to make the world as safe a place for our children as it can be.

I feel I should add "Here endeth the lesson." Sorry if I sound preachy, but I don't think Catholics have reacted to this scandal in the way you are suggesting.
Have a good day.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 13:10:31 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Roma- unfortunately you are totally wrong. The ex-pope covered up child abuse, the vatican has covered up child abuse, and on right down to parish level. They have moved paedophiles around to prevent prosecution, they have tried to stop investigations and lied. The church has paid out countless millions because of their behaviour, and there will be a lot more to go. How exactly do you know how many officials were complicit?
Other catholics on here have come up will all sorts of the excuses I listed previously.

I do love it that you try and turn it around into an atheist finding pleasure that your odious church is at long last being brought to task. Am I happy the wrong doing is at last public? Yes , delighted. Would I like it if the whole sorry institution were bankrupted and dissolved? YEs, happy as Larry.

Do I loathe the church for it's history of lies, brainwashing and abuse - yes. Totally.

Other posters of catholic dogma have tried to allege that the catholic church is now safe- and just days ago we learned of one of the parishes child protection officers being a paedophile.

The church is rotten from top to bottom, and it is still trying to limit investigations.

Maybe you should think and read a little more clearly about exactly how bad the corruption is in this horrible corporation that you call a church.

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 14:38:53 BDT
Anita says:
Clive - just out of sheer curiosity: would you ever admit all the good the Catholic church has done throughout the history? Just as one example - the University here in Vilnius was founded by Jesuits, that happened in 1579, not exactly Oxford, but still. Lots of famous people from there (not many, maybe none at all of them Lithuanian speaking in older times, but that's another topic). It's *still* the best University in the country, also with some name in the world. (And beautiful at that.) No universities had been in the area at the time.

I honestly believe that the Catholic church, as any given institution, has it's goods and it's bads. Being an old one, it has LOTS of goods and bads. Maybe the bads are remembered better. And mind you, the one telling you this is a representative of a country that suffered enough from the Teutonic order and is the last European country to adopt Christianity (600 years).

You know, you are so venomous here re Catholic church, that sometimes it seems you have something deeply personal about that. (Sorry - don't reply to that, I really don't want to pry into anything personal)

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 14:40:02 BDT

You just end up sounding like a bigot. There can't be many people left in the entire world who isn't aware of the paedophile cover-ups and yet you still feel the need to proclaim it from the rooftops.

Give it a rest.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 14:43:19 BDT
So we should forget about it?

Scream away Clive

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 14:56:30 BDT
Not forget about it, but really - a new thread for each new report ?? Just stick them in one, as and when necessary.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 15:20:03 BDT
Who said we should forget about it? Does it add anything new? Clearly not, as we are all aware of the scandal and some of us have been aware for a long time. (I recall early scandals in USA in the late 90's). Since Clive creates a new thread every few weeks on the same subject, it does seem a little obsessive on his part.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 15:48:28 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Oh yes- lets just ignore the fact that it is still being covered up, and abused children are still seeking acknowledgement and redress. Nice one.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 15:50:03 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Anita- because no other organisation, anywhere has the same record of abuse, lies and general unpleasantness that the catholic church has. I just happen to think child rape is wrong, and building a pretty building does not balance the scales- at least not in my eyes.

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 15:51:03 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
History reminds us of our mistakes and misdemeanours so hopefully we can learn from them. We must never forget, otherwise we'll never progress, so keep on posting Clive.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 15:52:19 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Since the reports are coming out on a regular basis- I think they should be publicised. Had the church come clean years ago it would not be necessary. Maybe you do not follow the news? Maybe you do not care about the continued abuse of children? Maybe if I included a few alien references you would be interested?

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 15:53:48 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Thanks to Karen and Stephen for your support. The rest- hang your heads in shame. It is attitudes like yours that have ensured that the religions have got away with it for so long.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 15:56:17 BDT
K. Hoyles says:
Well the alternative is to ignore it, and that isn't an option.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:07:40 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 Apr 2013 16:09:55 BDT
It's not that people don't care about child abuse. But you're obsessed and your need to keep posting new threads is boring considering you could just update one thread. You do seem to take some form of glee in the news and the opportunity of writing a new one up every other week.

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 16:10:53 BDT
Dan Fante says:
If people don't want to discuss it then it'll soon fall down the page.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:18:00 BDT
Anita says:
Clive - please, don't be an idiot - who says that child rape is right?? Or are you saying that child rape by not a priest is right? Do you think that children abuse does not exist outside the church?

Again, I'm asking - has the Catholic church done nothing good? What about the huge part of world's culture and art? I wasn't talking about a pretty building, I was talking about *University*, ie education. (And no, not religious education, or not only religious, as at the beginning it had been just 1 department of theology out of 4, the other 3 had been purely for *science*.) About Jesuit contribution to science, especially linguistics (yesyesyes - in addition to all the horrible things they did). The first book in Lithuanian was published by a priest - not a Catholic, but still. Children learned to read and write their language for the first time from it. And et cetera.

I'm saying all this *not* to defend child rape or *any* other misdoings by church. Every one child abuser should get what they deserve, be they priests or not. I just want to add to everything bad you may say about it. Because historically it wasn't *only* bad. To claim it was *just* bad is stupid, sorry.

(Just a detail: some monks brew very good beer :) )

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:19:55 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Given the catholic posters on here who post all sorts of apologistic crap, and put the church forward as some sort of moral compass it is only fair to post the reality. If you do not want to read it then ignore it. Put your head back in the sand.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:21:18 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Please show any post of mine where I have said every catholic is bad and they never do any good. Show the link to just one.....

Posted on 24 Apr 2013 16:24:00 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Here's a challenge- please show any organisation anywhere worldwide that has the same history of child abuse, brainwashing, torture, genocide, theft of moneys, land and gold, has such murky financial corruption, and that is still trying to cover it all up.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:24:53 BDT
Anita says:
And please show me where *I* said you said so.

I was talking about institution. Re people - being a Catholic or not doesn't make you better or worse per se

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:28:42 BDT
Anita says:
Yes, you are right. Also is true that it would be difficult to find another 2000 years old organisation. Also is true that the same organisation has done good things in history.

I repeat: you are RIGHT about the wrongdoings. What I say - if you want justice, give *all* the truth.

Okay, I rest my case here

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:46:03 BDT
"It's not that people don't care about child abuse"

Although at least three posters here don't, and will use any excuse to deflect attention from it. That isn't acceptable. And so long as we have this little thing called freedom of speech, Clive can post whatever he likes.

Long may he do so.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:57:09 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 Apr 2013 17:00:46 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Anita- unfortunately this is not so. Not one catholic poster on here has agreed the ex-pope should be tried in open court.

I am unaware of any catholic church where the parishoners have demanded that the church/vatican opens all it's files and gives them to the police. Otherwise decent people are incapable of condemning their church, its officials and the institutionalised corruption. Dogma triumphs everything.

With regard to education- do you think the teaching of homophobic, misogynistic fairy stories is ok? I do not. At what period do you think the church should have stopped teaching this drivel? Remember they prosecuted Galileo- not really the hallmark of a great educational establishment. The church has held society back and continues to do so. Everything that is coming out in all countries (with access to education and media) in which it operates is bad.

It's teaching on condoms, abortion, womens rights, gay rights, education and a belief in magic is wrong.

One of my great heros converted to catholocism but sadly I never got to meet him to ask why. It is a force for evil to my thinking, and the fact that there are decent catholics, some nice buildings (a lot of which were nicked during the reformation*) and other art works in no way mitigates the wrong it has always done.

* edited to add; from them by the church of England, not by them. Sorry it was not clear.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 Apr 2013 16:58:50 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Cheers Ryan, appreciate your support. There are a lot of other reports due out from Ireland and N.I., I doubt they will be any different in substance from this one.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  29
Total posts:  553
Initial post:  24 Apr 2013
Latest post:  21 May 2013

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