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Is the mendacious Theistic accusation of Atheistic belief a facile attempt to validate their own irrational belief?


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Posted on 28 May 2013 22:25:16 BDT
J A R P says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:29:15 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
We live in a physical universe governed by physical laws. I don't assume the existence of something that might be there. If it exists, there is evidence for its existence. If it doesn't exist there is no evidence for it. Just because I imagine something doesn't make it a fact does it? Otherwise everything we think can be classed as 'real'. And that is not rational.

Posted on 28 May 2013 22:30:02 BDT
Spin says:
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Posted on 28 May 2013 22:33:22 BDT
J A R P says:
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Posted on 28 May 2013 22:33:55 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
The relationship of man to God is no different to an 'imaginary friend' that many of us outgrow. I do not want to 'crush' the belief out of anyone. It is preferable that people come to this conclusion on their own, through their own deductions and thoughts. Jason talks about facts and truth and I really don't think anyone can say that when discussing God. The experiences he has had are no doubt real, but as I said in a previous post, the interpretation of them is likely flawed.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:36:24 BDT
TomC says:
Mrs Shaw,

I was assured by a poster on here some months ago that Jesus and his mum visit Earth on a regular basis. I asked for an invitation to tea to be relayed to them, and I thought perhaps a few small miracles might be provided as entertainment. I promised to get the best china out, and I even said that there would be Jaffa cakes!

So far, I have not received a visit, or even a reply; as you may imagine, this was a great disappointment to me. Somehow it didn't seem to be asking a lot, considering the powers he is supposed to have. Either this is not within their capabilities or they are not really interested in making my acquaintance; either way, I am not very impressed.

It has been suggested that perhaps they are already here and hiding in the house, but if they are, they are keeping very quiet, and the Jaffa cakes remain undisturbed.

Posted on 28 May 2013 22:46:28 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
It is usually people without a scientific background that think that science is evil and 'bad' for humans. Well, let me ask you when in our history would have been the best time to live?

Please tell me the tenets of science in a sentence.

Posted on 28 May 2013 22:47:24 BDT
J A R P says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:53:49 BDT
J A R P says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:56:03 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
What if I am happy with the way I am and don't feel the need for self-transformation? What if I find rationality and reality quite wondrous on its own without the need to pretend that there is something more? What if I find that I can be a good person...moral, decent, helpful, and productive human being without belief in deities or other supernatural phenomenon?

If I am doing all that what do I need God for? Since you are the one showing off your goodies on this forum, Jason, perhaps you can tell me why belief in God is important to you. What do you need it for?

In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:57:42 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 22:58:58 BDT
TomC says:
"Are there any other important scientific theories? It's pretty paltry stuff really."

Mmm; such a pity that those injections that cure or stop you catching nasty diseases actually work, though, isn't it? The power of prayer, on the other hand ...

Posted on 28 May 2013 23:05:57 BDT
J A R P says:
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Posted on 28 May 2013 23:10:13 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 23:11:46 BDT
J A R P says:
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Posted on 28 May 2013 23:14:15 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
There is nothing wrong with questioning science at all. Science progresses because people question. I welcome this. What I find appalling is the scientific ignorance of people. Science is not easy, it is not a quick fix. It is hard bloody work and digging around for answers can take years or decades or a lifetime. But for those ignorant of the scientific method to throw it aside because they don't understand it is galling. And then to ditch scientific discovery that is supported by facts and evidence in favour of superstitious belief that is based on nothing just screams lunacy to me.

150 years ago, instant messaging to anyone in the world would have been unthinkable. Now look at us. :)

In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 23:17:48 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 28 May 2013 23:20:42 BDT
TomC says:
Oh well; best if you stick with prayer, then :)

Posted on 28 May 2013 23:29:02 BDT
Spin says:
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Posted on 29 May 2013 00:16:05 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 May 2013 00:18:44 BDT
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013 00:22:14 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 May 2013 00:22:35 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013 05:51:18 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
Spin, how many different ways would you like me to answer this question? Science doesn't consider deities for the simple reason that there is no evidence of their existence. If there is no evidence to begin a hypothesis, there is no reason to go looking. You are asking the same question as, "What would science consider evidence that Santa Claus exists?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013 06:06:09 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
Only very few scientists are theists. I am not sure how they square empirical evidence with their beliefs but that is their problem. You are correct that historically, many important scientific discoveries were made by theists. Gregor Mendel was a monk and is known as the father of genetics. Charles Darwin put off publishing his Origin of Species for 20 years because he was worried about offending his wife, the church and other believers. However, we are talking about discoveries that occurred when everyone believed in God and everyone went to church.

We are throwing off the shackles of religious belief. It doesn't mean you cannot live a moral, decent, productive and happy life. And I can love all people regardless of their religion, race, creed, gender, age or sexual orientation. And that sits better with me than religious belief which automatically puts you in opposition to others.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013 06:46:21 BDT
Last edited by the author on 29 May 2013 07:15:52 BDT
Drew Jones says:
"Why is it assumed that because someone holds a religious belief that they must be anti science."
I'd say it's when someone holds to a supernatural, miracle performing, personally interested, interventionalist religious belief that the person is anti-science. It's quite possible for a deistic sort of appeal not to encroach on scientific areas.

"Strangely enough quite a number of early scientists were christians. They believed that the universe was ordered and that it ws possible know/understand it."
That's not strange as some gods are deistic ordering creators. The conflict comes in when appeals are made to both a creative order maintained by a god and a belief in miracles, that is to say a deviation from the order performed by the same god. These are two conflicting models of the world yet some people hold to both and insist both point to a god. That is having your cake and eating it too.

"So being a christian does not automatically make you anti science or incapable of rational thought."
I'd say that Christianity being a interventionalist religion claiming miracles at the centre of it's mythology is anti-science. However that doesn't mean that no Christian is able to compartmentalise or rationalise this belief and undertake a methodological naturalistic approach. People are funny like that.

"As I stated in an earlier post, science doesn't get involved in the debate about God"
And I asked if your god performs miracles, intervenes or interacts in some way with this world. Very often science does have something to tell you about your god, it's just not going to bother.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 May 2013 08:21:31 BDT
C. A. Small says:
F Shaw- welcome to the forums!
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  67
Total posts:  3068
Initial post:  19 May 2013
Latest post:  15 Sep 2013

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