Customer Discussions > religion discussion forum

What is the "Atheist" basis of morality?


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 201-225 of 2227 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2013 18:41:09 GMT
C. L. Brook says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

Posted on 8 Mar 2013 19:49:22 GMT
I wouldn't care less even if that sanctimonious platitude had been heartfelt.

In reply to an earlier post on 8 Mar 2013 23:31:27 GMT
C. L. Brook says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 03:37:47 GMT
Last edited by the author on 9 Mar 2013 04:59:30 GMT
light says:
Hi BC,

"Do you really believe the atheist is sincere when he says he doesn't have enough proof for God's existence?"

Yes, I think the atheists are sincere about that because the evidence I think they will accept is for God to somehow be measured on an instrument, otherwise God doesn't exist, or maybe that Jesus would give them a personal appearance and explanation about the Big Bang.

"As my atheist acquaintance said with much self satisfaction "Darwin killed God."

We don't have to worry about that, right? God can't be killed, the OT says that God is not a man, the only thing that Darwin may have killed is that God is a man.

The entirety of God is phenomena that can't be measured, only some of the effects of this phenomena can be measured at this time. So God is known only through the measurable effects, the manifestations of the phenomena. If this phenomena were killed everything in the universe would come to an end.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 04:28:00 GMT
Last edited by the author on 9 Mar 2013 05:04:33 GMT
light says:
Hello again to you, BC,

"I would also like to contend that the scale of atheism we are witnessing today, especially in the western world, is a kind of mass apostasy and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit."

There is a good reason for that and it is called, "hypocrisy." Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is much more than just speaking against it, blasphemy against the Spirit also includes living against everything it stands for.

I think that the atheists would say that science has created the apostasy, but to me science is helping to explain many things, which does not in any way nullify a Higher Power.

"Incidentally, what are your views on eschatology....."

Ok, you did ask although you probably won't be too happy with my answer ;o)

The soul is eternal and came into being with the beginning of the creation of our universe, which is possibly the Big Bang. When a body dies the soul returns to where it came from. It does not go to a physical hell or a physical heaven, it just returns to the oneness of God/Universe. I believe in different dimensions and some of these may have different vibrations than others, which could be considered more comfortable than others. So it is a souls journey to improve itself while in a physical body. I also believe in reincarnation, so whatever the soul doesn't accomplish in one incarnation it can work on in the next.

Inner-transformation is what scripture teaches, the evidence of this is found in how a person is on the inside and how they live their lives and this includes: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, and self-control, caring, sharing, forgiveness, tolerance, inner-peace, repentance: which means to stop doing what is wrong and start doing what is right.....

So in this respect, it is possible for atheists to find what scripture is teaching without believing in a God. "Anyone" from "any religion" or "non-religious" system can be moral/spiritual if they work on themselves.

"...what the Bible has to say about the end of the world?"

It's interesting what the bible says about the end of the world because it does appear to be happening now, right? You would think that with all the technology that is available today that things would be far better than the way they are. But things are not as good as they can be, certain aspects of life are better but love for one another has not gotten any better, and Jesus said that the world would know his disciples by their love for one another. This could also explain the loss of interest in the church and religion.

Considering the amount of people who say they believe in God, there should not be even one hungry person in the world, or homeless, or abused, or unloved, or naked.........

The end of the world, according to the bible, says that children will turn against their parents, and parents against their children, there will be lawlessness.....yes it is coming, as in labor pangs getting stronger and stronger...The end of our world will coincide with the end of our sun. Until then civilization will continue to deteriorate unless people start showing a sincere loving care for one another.

take care light

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 05:28:38 GMT
Last edited by the author on 9 Mar 2013 05:48:10 GMT
light says:
Hi Kodokushi,

What do you think about Shaitan?

"But then there's the whole good works don't count part of the Bible; so you can be a believing tool and end up at the pearly gates, but a charitable unbeliever will end up in Hell ... "

That is part of a huge misunderstanding because works do count, the Book of James says that faith without works is dead. In the Book of Matthew, Jesus is telling a parable about how some people neglected him and how some people tended to his needs, the people asked him how this is possible because they didn't see him, so Jesus explained that anything people did for others they did for him and anything they neglected to do for others they neglected to do for him.

People who say they believe in God should be living a life of good deeds/works because Jesus said that the world would know who belongs to him by their love for one another, but good deeds/works, in itself, is not the way to heaven because people are capable of putting on their Sunday best only on Sunday and forgetting about what they should be doing for the rest of the week. This would be what the bible calls a white washed tomb, clean on the outside while it is dead and dirty on the outside. Signs of inner-transformation must accompany good works in order for belief to be authentic, the bible talks about this is many areas.

Here is a very good explanation about listening and doing what God wants:

James 1:19-27

"My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it-not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it-they will be blessed in what they do.

Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

.

I'll end with this because it's a very important part of life for those who say that they believe in God and do not wish to come across as a hypocrite:

James 2:14-17

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:14:01 GMT
BC says:
Hi Phil. But how do you decide what right and wrong is? Can I ask you, does your moral code stay the same or does it change through time? Also, how do you react when you fail to keep up to that code that you have devised for yourself? Would you say then that you are a kind of god to yourself in respect of morality? Look forward to hearing from you. Bill.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:19:12 GMT
BC says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:24:22 GMT
BC says:
Hi Pendragon. We have reached an impasse. It is old human reason v divine revelation impasse. Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the unbelievers wanted more miracles, so they thought, to convince them to believe. One even asked Jesus something similar to your question here when Jesus healed the man born blind "How opened he thine eyes?" True faith humbly believes those things it cannot fully understand by human reason. Unbelief can and never will receive a satisfying answer.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:27:39 GMT
BC says:
Hi C L Brook. Thanks for your post. God Bless.

"The Word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged, piercing even to the diving of soul and spirit, and joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:30:55 GMT
BC says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 08:41:19 GMT
Drew Jones says:
"It is old human reason v divine revelation impasse."
You say it as if divine revelation is the superior. Of course in theory it is but in practice things are very different. It's on an internet forum you wrote it, now try having your next post revealed by divine revelation - that should tell you how the compare when it comes to results.

Posted on 9 Mar 2013 09:44:46 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
BC- 'We have reached an impasse' = 'I don't have a coherent answer to your questions. Here's a passage from the bible and some more questions. There.'

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 10:41:20 GMT
Pendragon says:
Hi Bill

Impasse? Maybe so. Personally I consider reasoned exchange to be progressive, at least potentially. For example, you stated "the devil ... blinds and deceives people to the truth". Unless you are simply saying this in reiteration of scripture, you must have thought about it, and I asked for your view on how the devil might do this. Of course you do not have to answer if you wish not to. Maybe true faith is your answer.

As for "Unbelief can and never will receive a satisfying answer" surely you do not believe that. Are you saying that no athiest has ever converted to a belief in God, or vice versa?

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 10:49:38 GMT
Pendragon says:
Hi light

You say "the evidence I think [atheists] will accept is for God to somehow be measured on an instrument".

One aspect of this discussion which your point underlines is the notion, which I consider to be mistaken, that there is some universally applicable benchmark of "evidence" (however defined) that will convince an atheist to believe, somehow different from the other universally applicable benchmark that causes a theist to believe.

Actually we are all human. I am reasonably certain that you will find that the reasons why people believe in God are quite diverse; albeit believers seem to have a remarkable difficulty (or reluctance) in explaining what those reasons are. See this thread for examples.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 11:05:11 GMT
Pendragon says:
Hi light

Interesting post. A few points to pick up.

"I think that the atheists would say that science has created the apostasy". So what do you think theists say has created this apostasy?

"When a body dies the soul returns to where it came from. It does not go to a physical hell or a physical heaven, it just returns to the oneness of God/Universe."

This seems far more likely than a collection of distinct personal souls divided for eternity between those resident in hell and those resident in heaven and those yet to be created.

But how do you reconcile the notion of the soul being part of the oneness of God/Universe with the idea of reincarnation, which would seem to require the soul to survive as an individual entity with its personal ancient memories intact and unique to itself?

"it is possible for atheists to find what scripture is teaching without believing in a God." Agreed. The only necessary pre-requisite is an ability to read, not faith.

"the end of the world ... does appear to be happening now, right?". No more so than people have been saying for over 2,000 years. We are still waiting. Of course, if you were a dinosaur, your world ended 65 million years ago.

"Considering the amount of people who say they believe in God, there should not be even one hungry person in the world". Indeed. It seems there are 1.2 billion Catholics, and I don't know off the top of my head how many other Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc. Where have God's people gone wrong?

"The end of our world will coincide with the end of our sun." Correct. But that will not be for another 4.5 billion years or so.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 14:14:19 GMT
G. Heron says:
BC

You ask about morality changing. Well of course with a religion of course you have an absolute set of morality which never changes, which is why we still burn witches, stone adulterers and have no problem with the keeping of slaves.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 15:00:43 GMT
AJ Murray says:
-"Speaking of this, a while back a similar topic about forgiveness and repentance came up and, if I remember correctly, refusing to forgive someone who has done you wrong will result in your eternal damnation, whereas repentance will get you rewarded. So, for arguments sake, a child murderer can genuinely repent and end up in Heaven, but the robbed parent who refuses to forgive will end up in Hell. To use my favourite German of the moment - Wahnsinn."

Yeah, it's a nonsense. Of all the ideas that Christianity advocates, thought crime is probably the least admirable.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 15:02:53 GMT
AJ Murray says:
You've just restated your contention without explaining why it is there is this deadline for a decision. If i die, if i find a form of 'me' inhabiting an afterlife, armed with this new evidence why can i not make that decision then?

Posted on 9 Mar 2013 15:09:38 GMT
Won't it be funny if it all turns out to be a big ethereal joke where all religions are actually created by Satan; the religious pop their clogs, think they're off to Heaven and then a demon will pop out and scream 'FOOLED YOU !!'

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 16:52:25 GMT
Bellatori says:
But the sad truth is that they will lie cold and dead in their graves and never know the truth then either. The 'fooled you' comes in this life unfortunately for them.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 17:27:27 GMT
If we're not cold and dead in our graves, can I have the honour shouting 'Fooled you !!' at you upon your arrival ?

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 17:59:26 GMT
BC says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 18:15:26 GMT
BC. You didn't answer my question.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 18:16:22 GMT
Bellatori says:
Be my guest... but I won't be holding my breath... but then how could I ?!
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


More Customer Discussions

Most active community forums
Most active product forums

Amazon forums
 

This discussion

Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  71
Total posts:  2227
Initial post:  6 Mar 2013
Latest post:  26 May 2013

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 3 customers

Search Customer Discussions