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Are Most Atheists really Atheists or...


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In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:45:53 GMT
Last edited by the author on 15 Feb 2013 10:58:50 GMT
Dont go down that route, its a cop out Diane and you know it to say,

"well they were never real priests".

yes they were, its just that priests like every other man, have sexual desires and when they spend years ignoring them, those desires become perverse and wrong. I would wager (I have no evidence) that its not the molesters finding the catholic Church, but the Church celibacy rules which are helping to create the problem.

Celibacy is such a stupid ideal, I mean there is no Evidence that Jesus was celibate, their is plenty of evidence to suggest the Virgin Birth was completely made up and even copied from older myths.

so why the celibacy rule. Its stupid, and old fashioned and based on rules and structures built in medievel times.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:47:34 GMT
Last edited by the author on 15 Feb 2013 12:34:15 GMT
Dan Fante says:
It somewhat reminds me of football hooligans and the argument that 'they aren't real fans'. When in fact they are exactly that, only an unpleasant version.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:48:16 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:51:40 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:52:31 GMT
Ok, the Bible is a different discussin, but easily explained Diane, you know that.

archaeology is a science, its has ntohing or at elats very little to do witrh whats actually in the bible.

Theology is made up nonsense about how the universe works, which s utdated. science is how we find out things.

First Cause, applies to God as well and is an old fashioned argument form a more primitive timel depsite what Tom/Paul says its irrelevent in 21st century Earth. as always the only place for God to have been active at all anywhere in thsi Universe is at the moment of the Big bang.

we can explain everyhtingf rom that point to now using science, or at leats a huge proportion of it.

The fact we dont know one things, has been a lifeboat to religion lately and its frankly more like a baloon in an ocean. Thsi itself is poor evidence for a deity.

In regards to his evidence tec.

No I wont force feed it t you Diane, go out and watch the show, whats the worst that could happen? It will be available for download, you have a PC, watch it , dont ask me to explain all to you.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:54:53 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:56:27 GMT
Dan Fante says:
I'm old enough to remember the far right being involved in hooliganism. They were still fans of the clubs in question though. Obviously you would get rare exceptions that were in it purely for the fighting but they were just that, i.e. exceptions. Racist chanting used to be commonplace, but the people doing it were still football fans rather than people attending games purely to vent their spleens. The argument about NF infiltration would really only make sense if they were whites fighting against ethnic minorities but it was a largely white 'pursuit' anyway (hooliganism, that is).

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:57:11 GMT
"Each parish has a council. They decide on the childrens representative who then has to undergo a police check."

Did all the guilty priests have criminal records? Would they have shown up on a police check? This really isn't much of a safeguard, not all predatory paedophiles have police records, only the ones who've been caught do (unless of course they're a catholic priest).

"As far as hiding anything, the church has a new prosecutor who has said that cases will be passed to the appropriate authorities, ie police."

Oh I guess that's all right then, the church which has been shown to be morally bankrupt, complicit in aiding child rapists to escape justice, hiding the extent of the abuse and all round generaly covering up problems has said it won't do it again. Well that's me convinced.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 10:59:35 GMT
Spin says:
DB: No. The church only has to modernise. Medieval dogmatism has no place in the 21st century. The church cannot survive if it persists in ignoring the developments and needs of a world it claims to care for.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:00:20 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:02:34 GMT
I dont, not like some good night turn off the ights thing, I think its down to helping individual peopel to run away from false religions and learn to stand with out it.

Thus ending the church by the fact there is no one left in it.

But realistically I dont care, I just think this si a discussion site and every week, there is something to discuss which again shows God to be a false concept

And I wonder how long it can last before people start to realise that all religion is lies and myths and as a species we are evolving beyond its needs.

Ad yet I fully realise that this will likely never happen,.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:04:54 GMT
It is feasable, but its also an excuse to make the Church appear less corrupt.

Its also extremely reasonable to assume that the work ityself lends itself to people have sexual issues, amny of whom choose Preisthood as a way top negate those feelings in favour of God, when in fact, it does not work, at least not for all of them.

there is probably a bit of both tbh

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:08:35 GMT
Last edited by the author on 15 Feb 2013 11:51:32 GMT
You are not going to watch it are you?

You have to read my post and then yours again I implore you, and realise that you have jumped onto an excuse to disregard my comments.

You have been here long enough to know that evidence for non existence is impossible, I cant do that anymore than you can show me evidence for the on existence of a magical egg which controls the temperature of the sun.

I am asking you to watch it, before commenting, please that's all I ask.

I have no doubt it will not change your opinion, but then we can at least discuss specifics rather than these generalisations we are using now.

Happy spelling police?

Posted on 15 Feb 2013 11:16:39 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Cam, please edit your posts. There really is no excuse for this sort of thing: "you,a nd relaise".

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:18:05 GMT
Spin says:
DB; As is probably obvious to you, there are a few posters on these threads to which study, reason, reflection and, indeed, mere curiosity, is anathema. =)

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:19:26 GMT
DB,

"""come to god through Jesus and you'll be safe from evil"?
Which book of the bible did you get that from?"

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 John 5:18
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

Just a couple of quotes among many.

"I have already told you that the Catholic church has taken the steps to prevent this happening again. The 'institution' has been changed and reformed, but it isn't about that for you. It's about using child abuse in order to further atheism. Despicable "

The food industry claimed it had changed and reformed after the "mad cow" crisis. Do you think it is still to be trusted?
I am not furthering atheism, but concerned about preventing child abuse. Atheism has nothing to do with it.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:23:01 GMT
Bellatori says:
Like the NotW. When corruption runs that deep and the cover up goes right to the top then YES. Anything else is just papering over the cracks. Of course it won't happen. All those cardinals in their nice palaces would have to go out and get a proper job. All those priests in their villages would have to do an honest days work.

We are back to RAH ""The most preposterous notion that Homo sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery.
********************************************************************************
Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."
********************************************************************************

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:34:14 GMT
DB,

The catholic church has covered up child abuse.
Moved abusive priests to avoid scandals.
Blamed children and homosexuality for its failings.
Leaked documents show in-fighting at the highest level.
Corruption in the Vatican bank - money laundering and secrecy.

I don't see how the catholic church can survive. I don't see why it should.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:50:28 GMT
I have dyslexia and I have no spell check on my PC, so there is an excuse fan dan!!

Now I have noticed it I will edit it, please dont mock me for it again though, this has happened before and errupted into something else.

I will edit the text in word this time.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:50:50 GMT
No I don't I said that people EXPECT God to forgive them because of 99% good, not that he actually does. The point is that God does not forgive anyone unless they genuinely ask for it (i.e. salvation).

That does mean that Jimmy Saville and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot could all be in Heaven, but the likelihood is slim.

People want their own sins forgiven in the light of the good that they do, but they want God to remember the sins of others based on the evil that they have done. It doesn't work like that.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:57:01 GMT
Maybe Jimmy and Hitler asked for forgiveness and now sit astride a cloud playing Harp music, of course since Hitler is a Christian, he does not have to worry about any Jews in heaven, as they did not follow Christ and thus won't go to Heaven.

Wait its all so complicated, only a human could make such a complicated idiotic thing as this, no God created this.

Maybe Stalin was not in heaven, as he was not a believer. Jimmy and Hitler were definitely raised and professed to be Christian.

Does that Mean an Theist goes to Hell, but then they'd know Satan is real (LOLOLOLOL) and believe in God and ask fr forgiveness.

Oh so complicated.

And unnecessary since its all lies.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 11:59:36 GMT
Spin says:
WD: So why do you, and your fellow christians, claim others are sinners? Are you and your fellows not those who "want God to remember the sins of others"? Would you not be rather annoyed that afer a lifetime expounding a theology and morality concerning good and evil, an evil person shared the comfort of heaven with you?

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 12:03:00 GMT
J. Forbes says:
I wasn't mocking you for it.

I have come across people who claim they are dyslexic, and think that excuses everything. All of us are good at some things and bad at others, but although I am quite good at English, and not dyslexic, I still read my posts after posting to ensure that there are no errors. (Even then, some slip through!)

Your dyslexia just means you have to try a bit harder.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 12:07:22 GMT
Last edited by the author on 15 Feb 2013 12:47:42 GMT
AJ Murray says:
It is a bit bizarre when you think about it. If there is some ethereal 'me' that persists beyond my death and i appear before some almighty judge, my own level of evidence for such a deity will have been amply satisfied. At that moment i would become the most convinced theist and will genuinely ask forgiveness for any of my perceived sins. A full recantation of my previous outlook will have occurred and i will readily acknowledge that i was wrong.

Yet, i am told, that because belief did not happen during my mortal life what will happen in my new after-life is that i will be condemned even though there could not be a more convinced beliver standing before this deity and showing genuine contrition.

In reply to an earlier post on 15 Feb 2013 12:08:25 GMT
And what is the big deal if some errors come through, they dont bother me, only you and since I am not inclicned to go out my way to please you it should be of little concern what you think to me.

And this is the way of things.

I can spell very well, I just especially when typing, put them in the wrong orders, and sometimes therefore even when reading back I dont notice them. I have to use spell check to highlight them to my crazy brain. spell check is not on this internet browser I use at work, therefore when at home this doe snot happen.

I would have to type every post in word and spell check before pasting to amazon, very time consuming.

already Im bored with this, lets say no more about it, its not interesting
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  41
Total posts:  1324
Initial post:  11 Feb 2013
Latest post:  11 Mar 2013

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