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Cardinal O'Brien -the latest in a long list of shamed catholics.


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Showing 126-150 of 357 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 19:50:44 GMT
Native Woman says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 20:24:42 GMT
Bellatori says:
"The discussion was about the shamed and disgraced Cardinal O'Drien not a tirade of abuse against the Catholic Church. "

Did you actually read my post? Had you done so you would have noted that it was entirely aimed at ex-cardinal O'Brian and his hypocritical behaviour. Your tirade is entirely misplaced.

the Cathoilic church has a bit of history vis a vis covering up misdemeanours of its 'celebrants' ...

I think it fair to say that your comments show a prejudice rather than a response to my comment.

Bottom line... ex Card O'B is a first class hypocrite and secondly where have you seen the Catholic Church condemn his behaviour... of course you have not... further hypocrisy.

... and then there is your hypocritical sanctimoniousness...

In reply to an earlier post on 27 Mar 2013 21:14:39 GMT
Bellatori says:
"He has hurt his parishioners and this will cause him suffering."

In a pigs eye... anyone that two faced is not going to be bothered by a bit of collateral damage to his parishioners.

" I cannot imagine how the Cardinal could have done this and still preach on that subject. " ...and that is the difference between us. I have no problem envisaging how he managed this. He is a Catholic. Hypocrisy is built in. There is a long list of things that they pay lip service to...

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Mar 2013 17:04:51 GMT
C. A. Small says:
No.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Mar 2013 23:08:22 GMT
Native Woman says:
The choice is yours and I have to respect it. You must have your reasons.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Mar 2013 23:37:30 GMT
Native Woman says:
Is it"hypocritical sanctimoniousness" to state my views sincerely and defend what I believe is right for me to believe. I appreciate your distaste and anger at his "hypocritical behaviour". I believe also that there is more to follow on this case which will send more shock waves through the media. Thank you for pointing out that I am "sanctimoniously hypocritical". This hadn't occurred to me that by speaking from my heart would be perceived as this. I must be very naive. I do, however, believe that the Catholic Church has learnt its lessons re. clerical abuse and , hopefully, there may be more serious reactions to these scandals. Time will tell under the new Papacy.

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Mar 2013 23:48:46 GMT
Native Woman says:
I wish you wouldn't generalise about Catholics being hypocrites and "paying lip service to..." Is it possible to condemn all Catholics because of this incident. Are you prejudiced, I wonder? You must be privy to many bad experiences re. Roman Catholics. Isn't there defects of some sort in every denomination and walk of life. Anyhow, I will leave your opinions to you. You must know why you feel so strongly about the Church's "hypocrisy". You will probably call me a sanctimonious hypocrite again for replying in this vein. I can't change your opinion and will leave it at this. I don't feel defeated just dejected.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 08:03:45 GMT
Bellatori says:
So where were all the Catholics outside their churches protesting about the on-going abuse scandal? Conspicuous by their absence... You ALL just sat there and let the press expose more and more whilst doing no house cleaning yourselves. Oh I expect you gossiped a bit but what actually did any of you do? Nothing.
How are you different to all those who sat by and let Jimmy Saville abuse all those kids? You are not.
This is something that has been going on for so long that no one in the RC church can possibly turn round and say they were unaware. Only the wilfully blind and deaf. Shame on you all.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 09:39:08 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Bellatori. Hand on heart i had no idea what was going on. What could i have seen? What could I have heard. I can assure you there was no gossiping about this issue either inside or outside the churches, because no one was aware there was anything to gossip about. My father, my brothers, my husband and his brothers, and my sons were all altar boys. As mothers we were pleased with this. We never for one second thought we were exposing them to possible abuse - nor were we.

As for protesting outside churches, what would that have achieved.?Within the parishes steps have been taken to protect children. Within seminaries, I hope the same.

Sadly, there have been priests who have abused their position- as there have been teachers, politicians, social workers, indeed among any section of society where people have power over others. No one would argue that education, democracy, social care is inherently evil. Nor would it be helpful to protest outside schools where no teacher has been guilty of abuse. What effect do you think it would have on the morale of teachers if, because of some renegades, all were tarnished.

Finally, please do not believe that the absence of sound and fury signifies nothing, although as the bard pointed out, it often does. I think what we are experiencing is genuine shock, better to be followed by a period of quiet reflection, leading to ways of prevention further abuse. I think this will be a time of change, not just for the Catholic Church,but for all institutions we trust to care for our children.
Cheers

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 09:46:59 GMT
Bellatori says:
I knew of this some 40 years ago... as with the Magdalene Sisters, it was plain for all to see. I watched with amazement as priests were moved around to start again elsewhere. As a governor of a primary school I asked questions and was invited to resign!

"As for protesting outside churches, what would that have achieved.?" It would have made it quickly impossible to carry on the cover up.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 10:03:12 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Roma "We never for one second thought we were exposing them to possible abuse - nor were we." yes you were. That you still fail to grasp that speaks volumes for your blind spot where religion is concerned.

The physical and mental abuse on children by the catholic church has been known about for decades withing the church at all levels. Which is why the compensation payments are so large.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 10:04:43 GMT
C. A. Small says:
But a catholic's first priority is to protect the church. Children come a long way down the list.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 10:10:43 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Bellatori Perhaps it depends where you live. I taught in Catholic schools for many years and never heard a hint of any scandal. Many of my family have worked as teachers or headteachers in my area and would not have countenanced any cover up. I admire your raising your concerns when a governor of a primary school and hope that you continued to do so on your resignation. It is to be hoped that in future it is easier to complain and that these complaints are listened to, so that children are protected and people s jobs not threatened as yours was. I do think we agree on the fundamentals. Our difference seems to be on the levels of awareness that existed among parishioners and among those in authority. I do admit that Church officials must have known but believe that the vast majority of parishioners were genuinely but unwillingly ignorant.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 10:12:58 GMT
Roma says:
Hi I didn t mean abuse in terms of indoctrination. I meant none of them was physically or sexually abused, to my knowledge.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 10:21:45 GMT
Roma says:
No, CA, that s so wrong. Anyone who harms a child or protects the abuser is helping to destroy the church they profess to believe in. "Better a millstone were hung round their neck." I do not believe that the reputation of any institution is more important than the pain of a child.
Cheers. I m now going out to enjoy the lovely sunny weather we have had the privilege of enjoying this winter. Glad to say there s not a hint of sarcasm in this last statement. Cheers

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 12:51:57 GMT
C. A. Small says:
"To my knowledge", would you still let children be alone with a priest?

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 13:01:40 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Well, that would include the ex pope, possibly the new one, most cardinals, and certainly hundreds, possibly thousands of other ranks.

I did enjoy the chorus of calls for the pope to resign and be prosecuted in his attempts to cover up child rape, the chorus that came from every catholic church in the land. Only there were no calls? Were there?

Or the demands from catholic's to cease the hidden trusts, off-shore accounts and multi-layer companies designed solely to hide the wealth of the catholic church, or the vatican bank' s lagging behind in complying with new regulations to combat money laundering, or the demands for the vatican to stop hiding genocide complicit priest's and nun's and give them up for justice to take it's course.

But of course there has been no such chorus, because catholic's have no moral compass, and a basic tenet of the faith is to accept all wrongdoing by the church and deny it.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 14:01:02 GMT
DB says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 14:29:08 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Clive,
CORRECT!!!!
Why can't everybody see this?

M.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 14:36:42 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Because I am the new prophet and soon my genius will be known! Then heads will roll!

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 14:38:00 GMT
C. A. Small says:
DB- sorry to point out such an obvious and glaring error but you appear to have mis-spelled "Ratzinger" as "Bellatori".

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 15:08:39 GMT
Last edited by the author on 29 Mar 2013 15:13:56 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Roma,
I think that all the well founded concerns come from the fact that Catholic Priest and Nuns who abuse children are 'never ever' brought before the courts.....
Instead they are dealt with by Cannon Law, which then buries the accusations and shifts the prepetrators around to carry on their dastardly deeds... as was proved in Ireland. The doo da has constantly hit the fan, and people have campaigned loudly but still it has been subdued... And it was Ratzinger who appeared to be behind the cover up.. It was he who corresponded with all the Bishops and told them they must not go public but had to deal with it in house - so to speak.
**Ratzinger/Benedict was the "top dog" in the Catholic Church in matters of pedophilia. But how did he use his authority? Did he act responsibly? It seems not. Take, for instance, the matter of Father Lawrence Murphy, a Catholic priest accused of molesting around 200 deaf boys, some of them in the confessional.
Two Wisconsin bishops urged the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the Vatican office led by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger) to allow them to conduct a church trial against Murphy, but church and Vatican documents reveal that the Vatican ordered the process halted. Despite the "grave allegations," Ratzinger's office ruled that Murphy should instead "repent" and be "restricted from celebrating Mass outside his diocese." This story was reported by the New York Times, "adding fuel to an already swirling scandal about the way the Vatican in general, and Benedict in particular, have handled reports of priests raping children over many years." The Times obtained the Murphy documents from Jeff Anderson and Mike Finnegan, attorneys for five men who sued the Milwaukee archdiocese.
"The goal of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, was to keep this secret," said Peter Isely, the Milwaukee-based director of SNAP, the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests. "This is the most incontrovertible case of pedophilia you could get. We need to know why he (the pope) did not let us know about him (Murphy) and why he didn't let the police know about him and why he did not condemn him and why he did not take his collar away from him."
Church and Vatican documents obtained by two lawyers who filed lawsuits against the Archdiocese of Milwaukee are "remarkable in the repeated desire to keep the case secret,"
In July 1996, Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert G. Weakland sent a letter seeking advice on how to proceed to Ratzinger. Weakland received no response from Ratzinger,
After Murphy was removed from the school in 1974, he went to northern Wisconsin, where he spent the ''rest of his life'' working in parishes, schools and, according to one lawsuit, a juvenile detention center.
Weakland resigned as archbishop in 2002 after admitting the archdiocese secretly paid $450,000 to a man who accused him of sexual abuse.
Catholic Canon 1387 stipulates that a priest who "in confession, or on the occasion or under the pretext of confession, solicits a penitent to commit a sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, is to be punished, according to the gravity of the offence, with suspension, prohibitions and deprivations; in the more serious cases he is to be dismissed from the clerical state." But Ratzinger seldom acted to defrock a priest. In the meantime paedophiles were not only free to molest more innocent victims, but they were still being subsidized by salaries paid by the church, and were still allowed to wear the vestments of priests.
In 1962 Emmett McGloughlin wrote prophetically that "The sexual affairs of priests in the U.S. are more closely guarded secrets than the classified details of our national defense." **
This is how come you and I wouldn't have known... unless it actually happened to us?
The whole article can be read:-
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Rat%20Zingers%20Children%20Pope%20Benedict%20XVI%20Ratzinger%20Pedophilia%20Child%20Abuse.htm

I'm so glad to hear that you have sunshine. We still have the snow, although it is now thawing, and the sun keeps peeking among the clouds.
I'm just taking a minute to chat before my Son and his wife picks us up. All the family, including my Daugher, Husband and children and my Sister and hers are going out to a 'posh' place for dinner. I am really looking forward to it.

Kind regards,
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 15:26:45 GMT
Bellatori says:
"Why didn't you report what you knew to the police?" Actually I reported it to the 'proper' authorities along with a number of accusations about the monks at a Catholic Boys school in South London. I suspect I was one of many who did so. What we did not know is that the 'proper authorities' i.e. local archbishop diocese were complicit and that complicity went all the way to the top.

No question that I made a serious error of judgement. I assumed that Cardinals, Archbishops and others at that level were men of probity and good standing and when they said they would act they would do so.

On one level I suppose they did act. They covered up. I doubt there is a cardinal now in place that was not responsible at some level for the cover up.

More to the point...where were you. Clearly passing by on the other side...

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 16:05:05 GMT
Roma says:
Hi Margaret I agree with you that there was clearly a cover up in the Church, with the aim of protecting the reputation of the Church rather than the priests involved. Absolutely, these priests should have been reported and dealt with as any other lay abuser would. Hopefully lessons have been learned, in the Church and in similar institutions, and that children and any other young adults receive the protection to which they are entitled.

I hope you and your family have a lovely Easter. We re going to visit my sons who have defected to the east (Edinburgh) tomorrow. There s usually some exhibition worth visiting while there so i ll maybe combine it with a cultural vist.

Cheers

In reply to an earlier post on 29 Mar 2013 17:56:11 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Roma- the priests complicit in genocide are still being protected by the church.

It is a morally corrupt organisation. Nothing has changed.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  29
Total posts:  357
Initial post:  24 Feb 2013
Latest post:  19 Apr 2013

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