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Are Most Atheists really Atheists or...


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In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 00:54:57 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 18:44:55 GMT
Spin says:
DB; Comunism was around long before Marx put pen to paper. He needed a social philosophy that supported his economic theory, and given his attack on capitalism he could hardly recommend individualism, could he? The ntroduction of "communism" into Marxist theory turned his observations of the growing phenomenon of "industrialisation" into a political theory. Marx's project originally had nothing to do with "communism"; it was his analyses of capitalist industrialisation of society which drew to him members of communist sections of society and intellectually forced him to favour an age-old political and religious doctrine. In short, his study of capitalism revealled the real conditions of the workers which he felt could only be allievated by communism. Because the analysis of industry, labour and capital necessarily involves an analysis of people, and how they are treated, a moral or political view of their condition is unavoidable.

In reply to an earlier post on 9 Mar 2013 23:48:42 GMT
J. Forbes says:
Most is not all, oh brain-damaged one.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 13:29:27 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 13:43:41 GMT
Bellatori says:
Probably no more than you are able to explain why your God created evil...

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 14:13:45 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 14:33:02 GMT
Last edited by the author on 10 Mar 2013 14:37:09 GMT
Drew Jones says:
Us identifying things as evil, especially natural evils would be expected from a universe that was indifferent to our fate.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 14:38:16 GMT
Stu says:
man created evil by his greed,animosity,jealousy,the list could go on and on,no religion needed for that,but those alone dont start wars its religion that starts most of the damned wars,by disagreeing which god is best when there isnt one

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 14:43:26 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 15:51:25 GMT
richard says:
most and every are not the same. if Stu is saying MOST he would not need to show EVERY.

it's very interesting to see you being so pragmatic.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 18:27:46 GMT
Ian says:
The only explanation I've sen you give for the presence of evil in the world IS an atheist one (as I remember you blamed people - though I'm not sure how we're responsible for parasites or disease). Does this mean you've become an atheist now?

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 19:06:22 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 19:31:16 GMT
Bellatori says:
Actually Diane, you did not. You evaded the question by ignoring the difficult bits such as why God created diseases like the black death.

The atheist explanation is very straight forward. Germs and similar, like any other life form, do whatever they need to to survive and reproduce. They find a niche and exploit it. The same, in a broader sense applies to humanity. We do good for the same reason we do evil because we see it as a way forward. The difference between the two, again seems simple to me. Evil is intrinsically selfish.

Posted on 10 Mar 2013 19:50:04 GMT
Bellatori says:
"People speak a lot today about the banality of evil, but not all evil is banal. Some of it is carefully structured and well-thought-out. That's where the real danger lies." Alan Dean Foster

I am not sure he is right. Banal means commonplace and as far as I can see acts of evil are for some form of self-gratification which may be external (I need (want) money... etc) or internal (emotional, sexual etc...) but in both cases there is an intrinsic selfishness. The original coiner ofthe phrase "banality of evil" referred to Adolf Eichmann and came in for some criticism for many reasons. A Jewish loby claimed she trivialised the holocaust by diminishing Eichmann's responsibility. Even if they are right about her motives (which I personally doubt) she was still right IMHO about the nature of evil.

If there is a real evil, it is not the selfish self gratifying type but those who are convinced that what they do is not evil (again a selfish attribute as it is deluding oneself to avoid accepting responsibility) and do it anyway.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 21:09:02 GMT
DB says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 21:31:39 GMT
Bellatori says:
Not me, girl. Nothing to do with me... I thought it was a rather stupid thing to post to be quite frank. Religion is the root of many but not all evils. Same goes for wars present and past.

Even an obvious choice like Afghanistan where the Taliban are doing such disgusting things (they just murdered a pile of children to make a point - other to show that they are evil I am afraid the point missed me), can you claim that religion is the cause? I suspect that most Islamists would disown these atrocities if they had the courage of their religion and would stand up and be counted. You wrote in another thread Matt Slick's apologist approach to the bears and Elisha. How different is that to their spokesman justifying the shooting of a schoolgirl? The Pakistani Deputy High Commissioner could not bring himself in an interview to condemn the shooting. He had obviously read Matt Slick as well, either that, or he was too scared to stand up and be counted just like the rest of Islam.

In reply to an earlier post on 10 Mar 2013 22:51:26 GMT
Last edited by the author on 10 Mar 2013 22:53:19 GMT
richard says:
DB,

i don't know what group you think you are referring to by 'you all' and so no idea why you think i am a member of whatever group you are referring to and no idea what question you are referring to either!

certainly 'most' would need to be a greater than 50% of all wars figure.

i am not seeking to validate any claim regarding percentage of wars caused by religion.

given that there is a figure publicly available for how many wars there are at any one time, Stu would only need to name over 50% of them that he understands were caused by religion. if i said that most of the states in America thought that capital punishment was acceptable i would only need to name more than half of them advocating it to prove my point!

of course war to some is defined as terrorism by others so i doubt there can ever be a definitive figure unless everyone can agree as to what constitutes a war!

is a war on terror a single war or a number of wars or more like a licence to terrorise others?

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:19:40 GMT
Whats your point?

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:21:25 GMT
Why not???

Double standards

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:22:16 GMT
Neither are Atheism and Communism, hence his illustration was as accurate as Dianes and that was his point I think anyone with half a brain can see.

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:26:05 GMT
Bad people do bad things, evil is not evil, its our perception ogf ones actuions that defines good and evil in ourselves and the society creates a blue print for what is considered good and bad.

Hence in the past the Catholic church would burn witches and torture people to death for non beleief and this was seen as just by their flock.

a serial killer does what he desires to do with no inhibitions, Evil is how we regard those actiosn based on our society model.

all very simple really.

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:27:06 GMT
Last edited by the author on 11 Mar 2013 10:35:37 GMT
Was WW2 started by Religion stu, or WW1?

Or the Civil war

Or the War of Independance

what about all the Wars Rome started whcih of them were 'caused' by religious differences?

Vietnam War?
Korean War?

shall I go on.

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:29:06 GMT
I disagree with it and therefore wont be backing it up.

Religions have started many wars???

Id say greed and ambition has started most wars and religion is often used as an excuse to validate their actions, yes there have been some that were purely religious, but not as many as people woud think.

In reply to an earlier post on 11 Mar 2013 10:32:07 GMT
Last edited by the author on 11 Mar 2013 10:36:54 GMT
I would say that repeating the question like this is very unfair of you Diane considering how many times I have seen the same approach done to you and you have completely ignored it an changed subjects.

Remember you asked a question which I answered and asked you back again and you pretended to ignore it for days and then said "What was the question again"? I gave up then. That was a week ago roughly and on this very thread?

Bearing in mind I kind of agree with your position on this, I still think its hypocritical
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  41
Total posts:  1324
Initial post:  11 Feb 2013
Latest post:  11 Mar 2013

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