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Why DO so many atheists pile (often aggressively) onto the religion forum?


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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 07:31:00 GMT
Bellatori says:
"the suggestion is the Earth drowns itself in iniquity"

Not in my Bible. God tells Noah to get on the ark because he (God) is going to kill off the rest of the unrighteous...

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 08:11:19 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 09:14:08 GMT
Last edited by the author on 30 Mar 2013 09:35:59 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony: But the authors and readers of stories like Aesops Fables, or Orwells "Animal farm" do not claim to be true stories, ie; factual accounts of reality, whereas the authors of the bible stories, and the stories themselves, claim to exprwess such truth. In fact, a devasting flood did occur in the middle eastern region an age ago, when the Black sea broke it banks, and this flood is recorded in "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and Ancient Egyptian Myth (writings that were produced long before the so-called "Old Testament") so the fact that different cultures have such a myth lends to its basis on real events. But certain aspects of such tales, such as an ark containing all the species on the planet, are expressions of accepted cultural mythologies intended to address questions to which no-one had sufficient empirical knowledge to answer. I am sure that, like today, not everyone at the time believed in the truth of such tales, but appreciated the moral guidance and intellectual security of the tales themselves. When these tales were put into writing, the texts themselves, being "containers" of wisdom, became sacred; and, unlike a verbally communicated tale, and being a physical object, the myths and their content became "real", became "true". In those days, the very signs used to write a story were considered to be part of the truth of the story; an idea that carries on today within most religions that record their beliefs in writing. So, it is the texts claim to "truth", not the intellectual capacity of the readers, those you call "half-wits", that distinguishes one story from another and lends itself to historical and/or literary criticism.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 09:23:55 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Spin- an excellent post.

Why you do not confine yourself to such as this instead of your attempts to annoy people baffles me.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 09:31:20 GMT
Bellatori says:
Exactly...

By the by, anyone interested in the story of Gilgamesh might try reading Gilgamesh the King by Robert Silverberg. As a fictionalised account the writer has tried very hard to make Gilgamesh live as a real person. A brilliant story retelling.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 10:12:35 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 10:18:38 GMT
forester says:
Yes, but it never happened, did it? Its not what it says, but what it suggests.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 10:19:02 GMT
[Deleted by Amazon on 30 Mar 2013 10:35:58 GMT]

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 10:20:30 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Really? and what evidence is there that any of the alleged stories are true?

So we are agreed- it is all a myth. Excellent.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:01:33 GMT
Last edited by the author on 30 Mar 2013 11:01:53 GMT
forester says:
Yes, we are agreed. But there are lessons in things that never happened. That is literature. Myths were never meant to be literal truth, they were symbolic, in the case of the Bible they usually have a moral basis, they also have political and geographical underpinnings.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:14:14 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony: But it IS a "history" book. At the very least, even an atheist appreciates its value as a record of human cultural thought and literature. Even the historian can gain insights into the mind-set and traditions of a culture by reading the bible. Secondly, I do not believe Aesops or Orwells stories contain or express "truths"; they express our concern as to what "truth" is. Their intent, meaning and content specifically to question, not proclaim. Sacred texts, on the other hand, are believed to be the expression of "truth" in both their content and very existence.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:45:48 GMT
If you don't believe that Aesop or Orwell contain truth that's fine by me. I think they contain very important truths, but I don't know how I might persuade someone who didn't agree with me. I'm not sure what 'evidence ' would mean here.

You are right; the bible is a historical document that allows us to interpret another distant culture and literature. But so are the Sutras, Homer, Dante, Plato, etc. I'm not sure that this makes them history books though. And I'm pretty sure that this is not the only wisdom that they contain, if one indeed accepts that they do contain wisdom.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:53:28 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony: But that is the point: You and I can argue about the meaning of Aesop and Orwell, because they are intended to be interpretative. But we cannot argue literary theory with a person who believes the bible expresses absolute, irrefutable truth.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:55:31 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 11:57:24 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 12:10:24 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony: Why would either a Theist or Atheist refuse to engage in conversation with someone who opposes them? Is not such a refusal to converse, debate, oppose, defend and perhaps educate oneself and others in the process the greatest fault in human being? You refuse to engage with those who oppose you because you consider them to be "half-wits"? Is that not a "half-witted" stance?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 12:47:20 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 12:53:14 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony. I apologise. But your use of the term "half-wit", when read as a post, could be taken as a slight rather than a simple expression of dissatisfaction. I myself have a tendency to consider some posters on these forums as being "morons" but I would not post that opinion. =)

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 12:58:30 GMT
Bellatori says:
"but I would not post that opinion."

Restraint? Toi? Wow...

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:15:37 GMT
No, it's not really my style usually either. And I feel a little shame at being so blunt. I should perhaps try to be more patient. Perhaps 'bigots' would be better.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:18:39 GMT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:21:21 GMT
'Humour'? What evidence have you got for this?

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:23:22 GMT
Bellatori says:
Restraint AND humour. A veritable polymath!

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:33:49 GMT
Spin says:
Anthony: You wish to discuss the origin, nature, meaning and appreciation of humour? Ok. One question: Why does humour need evidence? The nature of humour, the reason it is appreciated, is precisely because of its lack of evidence. How many Relativists does it take to change a light-bulb? 100. One to hold the light-bulb and 99 to turn the room.

In reply to an earlier post on 30 Mar 2013 13:37:24 GMT
Last edited by the author on 30 Mar 2013 13:56:13 GMT
Bellatori says:
My favourite of those was

How many existential philosophers does it take to change a light bulb?

Fish!

[EDIT] delete 'existential ' replace with 'surrealist'... Oh the depredations of age Mr. Wilde
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  63
Total posts:  1425
Initial post:  28 Mar 2013
Latest post:  9 May 2013

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