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How Can Anyone be so Stupid as to Take the Bible Literally?


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Posted on 22 Mar 2013 13:37:32 GMT
So you pick and choose which parts suits you? Basically cherry picking?

How do you decide what to take literally and what is a metaphor?

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 13:39:04 GMT
Henry James says:
JB, my psychologist Harvard Professor brother William sez
that I make sweeping statements
in order to provoke people.

I think he is just trying to provoke me.

In my novels, it is difficult to find a conclusion anywhere.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 14:31:52 GMT
I thought Halos were something to do with a computer game.

Posted on 22 Mar 2013 14:45:35 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 15:19:11 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Ko,
So you already have a house. where?
Mx

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 15:43:27 GMT
Pipkin says:
CAS,
I have a woodland ajoining my home and have many feeders and fat balls in the trees outside my window which attract literally hundreds of, Goldfinches, Redpolls, Tits of all genres, Wrens, Greenfinches, Serins, Siskins, a large family of Bullfinches, Chafinches,Tree creepers, Woodpeckers, Collared Doves, Pheasant family I have Robins, Blackbirds, Jays, a few Dunnocks and a pair of magnificent Sparrow Hawks that keep trying their hand. The little birds manage to escape but they have had the doves in the past. We used to have lots of Sparrows but they appear to have disappeared completely? Bird watching is my joy. It keeps snowing heavily here and some of them are tucked up in the eight houses I have outside my window. In between the snow showers, I keep seeing some of them nipping out to eat on the seed rings I have hung underneath the houses.
We have a pair of foxes who live in the field, and a visiting badger or two...which I see in the night trotting across the road from the woodland into the naturalised parkland opposite me.
I thought I lived in Heaven but yours appears to be Paradise. Hard work though.. Good on yer.
I would give my right arm for a bee hive.
(The Pheasants are cawking at the moment so I will have to throw them some corn and bread because the seeds dropped by the birds is buried under snow)

Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 15:57:09 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hello Wayne,

>>Surely using falsifiability you COULD prove that Moses did NOT receieve the 10 cmmandments on Mt. Sinai. If you had the Fed-ex receipts saying they were delivered to Egypt, or photographs of Moses sitting in a diner at the time in question, or a comment at the bottom of the originals that said 'this might make a good book' and so on. <<
Or you could realise that this 'story' was taken from Egyptian mythology?

Some scholars think that the ten commandments of the Hebrew Torah are derived from the much older "negative confessions" found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
For example, here are some of the 42 negative confessions:
*Hail, Usekh-nemmt, who comest forth from Anu, I have not committed sin.
*Hail, Fenti, who comest forth from Khemenu, I have not stolen.Hail, Am-khaibit, who comest forth from Qernet, I have not slain men and women.
*Hail, Neba, who comest and goest, I have not uttered lies.
*Hail, Qerrti, who comest forth from Amentet, I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.
*Hail, Kenemti, who comest forth from Kenmet, I have not blasphemed.
*Hail, Nefer-Tem, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
*Hail, Uatch-rekhit, who comest forth from Sau, I have not cursed God.

Incidentally 'God' was the name given by the Egyptians to the power/creation/or creator/ of the Universe.

Perhaps an idea is to actually investigate Egyption myths and documents, then maybe a true picture will emerge?
Sincerely,
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:01:50 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Richard,
I was indoctrinated and brought up a Catholic, but then the veil fell from my eyes, when I began to read and understand for myself. I have suffered no lasting ill effect.
I can see though how some heavily brainwashed/indoctrinated people could suffer being 'cast out' of a community. Which just goes to prove how 'Christian/Godlike' that community was in the first place. Not!
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:10:43 GMT
Last edited by the author on 22 Mar 2013 16:17:01 GMT
Pipkin says:
As you wish Wayne.
I am only attempting to give you information to make better informed decisions.
The fact is.. that the OT is filled with porkies....and is clearly filched from Egyption Mythology and Astrology/Astronomy. The stories were all written there in the Egyptian Book of The Dead.
It is extremely difficult and painful to have to admit that the whole of your life's beliefs have been wrong..... I know - I was that person.
Regards,
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:12:39 GMT
Pipkin says:
>>Don't believe everything you read. Some people argue that halos in religious art are also based on Egyptian sun worship. That is utterly wrong.<<

And you know this because?

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:20:03 GMT
C. A. Small says:
no problem!

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:21:47 GMT
C. A. Small says:
And to those who can think coherently as "utter cobblers".

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:22:01 GMT
Sadly I don't have time to investigate every ancient myth. I do know however that others that have taken the time to do this don't agree with the assessment of your (one?) Egyptologist.

It does not suprise me that that there are similarities with the ten commandments, because for the most part they are social requirements. As the saying goes, any similarities are purely coincidental.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:28:39 GMT
Last edited by the author on 22 Mar 2013 16:29:49 GMT
"I am only attempting to give you information to make better informed decisions."

But so was I, that is my point about the son/sun similarities. If your scholarship implies that there was a mix up in ancient Egypt/Israel because of the similarity between the words in the English language, I don't think much of it. And if such an elementary mistake could be made, then surely this makes everything else suspect.

"The fact is.. that the OT is filled with porkies....and is clearly filched from Egyption Mythology and Astrology/Astronomy."

Firstly how is it that you know that the OT is the one with the 'porkies', what if the Egyptian Mythology is 'porkies'. Secondly there are also arguments that the OT was written while being influenced by the Babylonians, which is more plausible.

"It is extremely difficult and painful to have to admit that the whole of your life's beliefs have been wrong..... I know - I was that person."

I've been there numerous times, which is why I don't find your remarks about Egyptology all that enlightening.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:31:31 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Wayne,
I have just been looking through my files and found this for you...
** The "ten comandments" are just the tenth-hand ripoff of the Code Of Hammurabi.
The Code was a far better and more complete legal system, good enough for the country at its time.
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
Even the fiction of how "God" gave "Moses" the "Ten Commandments'' is a ripoff of the Code.
According to Buybull fiction, "God" made lightning etch the ten commandments into stone.
According to Sumerian myth, Marduk allegedly shone light from the sky and burned the Code into stone.
Despite the glaring similarity and the fact that the myth of Marduk ''predates'' abrahamic mythology (christian/jew/muslim) by about 1300 years, I've heard godbots claim that the Code is a "ripoff of the Buybull" or that the Buybull was written first.
The religious are far too proud of their ignorance, to learn?**
Their words not mine, but?
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:33:32 GMT
C. A. Small says:
Hi margaret, we also have various woodpeckers, a sparrow hawk that comes past the house like a jet and occasionally gets a sparrow- but hugely impressive as he goes past the windows, chaffinches, robins, collared doves, pigeons, cormorants that land on my neighbours lakes about 50 yards from my kitchen window, dunnocks, a nuthatch, pheasants and the partridge family that we see regularly but are unsure of exactly where they live. it is a joy to see them strutting about with their young.

The old lady who lived here some years ago kept bees, and we are trying to get a local beenut to put some hives on our property ( he is about half a mile away as the bird flies) but so far lots of promises but no joy. We also have lizards, slow worms, grass snakes, and we hear the romney marsh frogs when they are breeding, it sounds as if they are laughing (maybe they are?), and on a warm night there is a cacophony of sound.

On the marsh dykes we can see breeding ducks, moorhens,swans and water voles, plus more frogs than you would believe. We are on the edge of various SSI's, bird sanctuaries, and other protected areas. It is lovely here, but we are currently fighting a wind turbine company who wish to destroy the area.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:39:25 GMT
But are their words true? You seem ready to believe what you are told by one person without having checked it out for yourself (e.g. Josephus was really Saul/Paul).

Why accept one person's word on a subject, particularly when that one person is a minority view and does not fit the established knowledge?

It sounds as though you admitted "that the whole of your life's beliefs [had] been wrong" on the basis of one minority scholar, not on the basis of good reasoning.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 16:43:07 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Wayne,
>>What if the Egyption Mythology was filled with porkies?<<
What if it was... that might account for the even bigger exagerated porkies in the OT, because the theme was definitely nicked, and used as a tool to control and subjugate the people, who lived in fear of hell and brimstone.
I can see from some of your posts that you are an intelligent person, so what happened? When did your switch become stuck?
Margaret

Posted on 22 Mar 2013 16:50:20 GMT
"because the theme was definitely nicked" But I haven't seen any evidence of that, only evidence of similarities which is what I would expect from cultures that lived side by side.

"used as a tool to control and subjugate the people, who lived in fear of hell and brimstone."

Given that the period you are dealing with had no concept of hell and brimstone (that was nicked from the Greeks much later), I still getting the impression that you haven't thought the arguments through.

"I can see from some of your posts that you are an intelligent person, so what happened? When did your switch become stuck?"

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my intelligence. It is for this reason that I find your arguments very unconvincing. Perhaps it is not me that is stuck in one way of thinking.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 17:13:06 GMT
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In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 17:26:29 GMT
Pipkin says:
Clive,
I am not prone to envy as a rule, bit in ths instance I am.
Where are you?
Margaret.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 17:41:06 GMT
C. A. Small says:
On the edge of Romney Marsh in Kent. Our slice of paradise, which I am trying to improve fr the wildlife and us. We have a neighbour who purchased 40 acres of woodland, and with the help of local volunteers has installed various ponds, planted various things and made a dormouse habitat- at the last count there were 24 nesting pairs ( this might not seem much but it is hugely impressive and important!). As a reward for the graft we get to go on the survey mornings where the torpid dormice are checked and weighed ( by the chap with a licence to do it!) and the results go to the national database.

There are few things in life as wonderful as a torpid dormouse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlS3w1GGE8g a snoring torpid dormouse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lohC8GujDj4 this is not us- but it is what we do.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 18:01:14 GMT
Henry James says:
Wayne
If you google
"10 commandments and Hammurabi Code"
you get 57,000 hits.
I think Margaret is relying on more than one scholar
though I have only read about 5,000 of those hits so far.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 18:03:53 GMT
Pipkin says:
Hi Wayne.
The Code of Hammurabi contains some 282 laws or rules of common behavior. Interestingly, the Ten Commandments contain only 10 of those lawss.
Why only ten?
Why not the full letter of the law?
Why Moses?

http://www.commonlaw.com/Hammurabi.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/Ancient/hamcode.asp

Stop for a moment and read what I suggest...and consider this
Moses is recorded by some as being a Pharoah and as such was conversant with all the Egyption 'rules.'

Was Moses an Egyptian Pharoah?
The Old Testament makes it clear that Moses was neither a Hebrew nor an Israelite. Exodus 2:19 specifically refers to Moses as "an Egyptian".
The name Moses derives from the Egyptian word mose, meaning "offspring" or "heir", as in Tuthmose: "born of Thoth". In the book of Exodus it is stated that Moses' life was under threat when the Pharoah decreed death to newborn Israelite males.
The reason for this was that their were too many Israelites in Egypt and they were becoming too powerful. So it was pronounced that every son born should be cast into the river. An Israelite woman placed her son in a basket of rushes and set him among the water reeds. The Pharoah's daughter discovered the baby and rescued him, she paid a woman to nurse him and eventually adopted him. It was she who named him Moses. In the very next verse of the bible, Moses appears as a grown man.
Amenhotep III
Historical linguist, Ahmed Osman, has conducted an in-depth research into the identity of Moses using Egyptian records. He believes there was an influential Israelite named Yusef- Yuya (Joseph), who was chief minister to the Pharoahs Tuthmosis IV and his son Amenhotep III. When Tuthmosis died, Amenhotep married his younger sister Sitamun so he could inherit the throne. Shortly afterwards in order to have an adult wife, Sitamun was only a child at this time, Amenhotep married Tiye, the daughter of Yusef- Yuya. It was decreed however, that no son born to Tiye could inherit the throne, there was a general fear that the Israelite relatives were gaining too much power in Egypt. So when Tiye was pregnant, certain palace officials thought that her child should be killed at birth if a son.
Akhenaten:
Arrangements were made for Tiye's Israelite relatives to nurse the boy. Amenhotep (born 1394 BCE), was educated at Heliopolis by the Egyptian priests of Ra and spent his teenage years at Thebes During this time his mother had become more influential than the senior queen Sitamun-who had only borne a daughter- Nefertiti. When Amenhotep III suffered ill health, young Amenhotep was brought to the fore. He married Nefertiti in order to reign as co -regent and when his father died he succeeded as Amenhotep IV.
Because of his part Israelite upbringing, Amenhotep IV couldn't accept the Egyptian dieties and developed the notion of Aten - an omnipotent god with no image, represented by a solar disk with downward rays. Amenhotep changed his name to AKHENATEN (Glorious spirit of the Aten) and closed all the temples of the Egyptian Gods making himself very unpopular. There were plots against his life and threats of armed insurrection if he didn't allow traditional gods to be worshipped alongside the faceless Aten. He was eventually forced to abdicate in favour of his cousin Smenkhkare. AKHENATEN was banished from Egypt and fled to the land of Midian. Here, he took another wife, an Israelite named Zipporah. Nefertiti had died a short while before. He then made arrangements to return to Egypt to retrieve his supporters who believed he was the rightful heir, the royal "mose", as they had been placed in bondage under the new, harsh laws.
Moses is described in the Old Testament as being "an Egyptian" and "slow of speech" in the language of the Israelites. Ahmed Osman believes that Moses was in fact the Pharoah AHKENATEN who then introduced monotheism and closed the temples making himself extremely unpopular. He was later forced to abdicate and banished from Egypt. He returned to lead his supporters out of Egypt to a new life.
Read more Was Moses an Egyptian Pharoah? http://suite101.com/article/moses-real-man-or-biblical-myth-a61554#ixzz2OIAYQnXZ

All I am asking is that you read something other than your indoctrination documents.
More references:
According to A.E. Salmon, PhD, the Old Testament took form around 399 BCE, a few thousand years later than when it was allegedly penned.
References:
*Salmon, A.E.: A Time-Line Approach to Issues in Critical Thinking, Florida, USA. (No date given).
*Friedman, Richard E.: The Bible With Sources Revealed: A New View Into the Books of Moses, (No date given).
*Friedman, Richard E.: Who Wrote the Bible?, (No date given).
*Finkelstein, I. and Silverman, Neil A.: The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, (No date given).
*Alter, Robert.: The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary, (No date given).
*Armstrong, Karen.: A History of God, 1993

Choose just one, and be amazed at how much you didn't know.
Margaret

In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2013 18:05:14 GMT
Pipkin says:
Clive,
Wonderful. Keep up the good work...and thank you
Margaret.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
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Initial post:  21 Mar 2013
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