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For anyone not aware of the recent event in this so called Christian country.


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In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 16:38:24 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
Annasthesia - no, archaic conditions meaning basic - more women have died as a result of poor medical procedure in Ireland than elsewhere. Which is one of the reasons they come here and other parts of Europe. Wealthy women can afford to go private, so it is mostly poor women who get help from charities for the air fare and procedure.
K

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 16:40:10 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 16:54:01 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
Mr Burchell - I doubt you would notice the impact, being a middle class male.
K
Sorry, that was rude. All middle class males, please accept my apologies.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 16:57:33 GMT
C. A. Small says:
come on in- the mire is lovely for the time of year.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 17:19:47 GMT
Charlieost says:
Hi richard. There are many Irish women who are very angry about this. There have been marches and vigils and the Health Minister is on the spot. This time there are demands rather than requests for change so I hope you are not right.

Having faced angry Irish women (not obviously for the same reason) and they can be very scary, I do not think that the Health Minister will be safe wherever he goes until this is sorted out.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 17:24:45 GMT
Charlieost says:
As I have already made quite clear to you Spin, I have no interest in entering further debate with you and I have already given you the reasons why. I do not have that much time to do so as I am busy doing other things.

Regards. Charlie.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 17:36:03 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 17:58:58 GMT
Charlieost says:
Eggball. No one has disputed the facts issued by the berieved husband that his wife was refused removal of the foetus though she was in agony and that he was told that this was a Catholic country and while the foetus had a heartbeat it would not be removed despite the fact that there was no chance of it being born and surviving as a baby.

How many "investigations" both in the UK and Ireland have turned out to be cover ups?

I'm not expecting an answer to that last question. Just making a point.

And that is a point for any others who have said that it has not been investigated yet and a report has not been issued by the relevant authorities. Hillsborough anyone?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 17:46:25 GMT
Charlieost says:
Athanasius. How lovely to see you back. I wondered if this issue would winkle you out of your padded cell.

You equate age with wisdom. Not so I am afraid. The predjudiced and stupid often go to the grave no different.

You equate wisdom with coming round to your point of view or belief. Again not so. I would love to hear what the children in your school call you behind your back. Unlikely to be Wise Old Owl I think.

And finally athanasius. This is a thread which I started about a specific case and and if people wish to post in relation to it then I am interested in their views (apart from Spins of course) and we are not discussing euthanasia.

If you want to discuss that then why not start your own thread.

With respect. Charlie.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 17:50:02 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 18:02:44 GMT
I bet if 'This is a catholic country' hadn't been mentioned there wouldn't have been half as much of a fuss kicked up about this - the fact is the law says 'no abortions'. Likewise, look at the girls who have to travel to the UK for abortions, you don't hear much about them and that is because no-one has gone to the effort of saying 'we're Catholic, so no'.

It's my belief that she was already sick, possibly dying, before the fetus died; as in, whatever was causing her back pain was the cause of her death. Once the baby had died, her womb was cleared of the fetal remains, she then died of organ failure and septicemia - therefore I don't think an abortion would have necessarily saved her life, as it seems the womb wasn't cleaned properly. Perhaps she already had sepsis and kidney damage/failure hence her back pain and any action taken on the fetus would have been too late any way.

No-one can say for certain whether an abortion would have saved her life or not, not until an inquest is held.

Any reason for the mark down, too much effort to organise a response ?? Or is it just for not kowtowing to the 'religion is evil' expectation ?

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 18:07:48 GMT
Charlieost says:
Good point Kodokushi. It is quite possible that you are right but the point remains that women in Ireland can be refused a termination if the foetus still has a heartbeat even if there is risk to the mothers life because of a law which is based on religion rather than the interests of the patient.

If any one of my loved ones was in this position and refused medical proceedures then the doctors health would be at risk. I have a feeling that this would not have happened had the husband been an eighteen stone traveller with his clan in the corridor. That is an aspect that has not been explored yet.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 18:08:57 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
'It's my belief that she was already sick, possibly dying, before the fetus died; as in, whatever was causing her back pain was the cause of her death.'

Are you speculating?
K

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 18:14:12 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 18:36:33 GMT
"Are you speculating?" - I believe that is all that can be done at this stage, is it not?

Charlie, as a man, glad I don't and won't ever have to make that choice but up until now, I'm still for the woman, its her body, its her choice. Tom M of all people, did put up a counter argument, a case study I believe which I was actually quite moved by. Once agian, just glad I'm a fella.

For making a statement offensive to no-one and by simply outlining the fact no definitive cause of death has been given I get marked down? I would like whoever voted me down to explain why. No actually I don't, I'm going home. With all due respect, Get f-c-u-k-e-d.

Regards PS

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 18:28:11 GMT
Tom M says:
Thanks Diane. The fraudulent, ignorant creeps are just that. The ignorance is so palpably rooted in a murderous indifference. As I said, the atheist crowd is largely the same crowd that doesn't mind killing babies. Any wedge they can dishonestly force in to service to support the underlying hedonistic value system they will employ. The image is so disgusting, and hardly surprising that they would allow their wills directed to the lower goods to blindly insist that there is no justice. But of course, there is justice.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 18:45:53 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
I wonder if Tom has any redeeming features? If I were Diane, I really wouldn't want to be associated with someone quite so narrow minded, and quite frankly, nasty.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 18:46:35 GMT
Tom M says:
Are all suspicious deaths in hospitals lead to an outcry to change laws? One gets the sense that there are certain persons, deeply resentful of sound sexual moral principles of justice who want to ensure that the Irish babies can be murdered too.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 18:57:09 GMT
athanasius says:
With respect charlie boy
euthanasia and abortion are all part of the same problem of the perpertual culture of death that pervades these lands. If we have no repect for the unborn it follows that there is no respect for the elderly.You might know many angry women (no wonder) I have hosts of family who are angry that this is used as a test case.All they want is the hassle of not travelling to the uk for abortions. I feel sorry for the woman and her husband but I firmly beleive that this is case of gross medical negligence of and not about abortion. It is now being used to effect that change,God help us. It was alwayd the plan of the EEC that this would come to fruition anyway. Hope you are pleased. Maybe pray for the millions of aborted children that will now happen in Ireland. What do they call you behind your back?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 19:13:55 GMT
Clearly.

Was it worth asking ?

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 19:27:23 GMT
K. Hoyles says:
I ask because I get the impression that you might know the reason for her back pain. When a woman is having a miscarriage, she will experience contractions, similar to giving birth. Contractions would explain the back pain.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 19:42:59 GMT
Last edited by the author on 18 Nov 2012 19:43:30 GMT
Tom has no redeeming features, alas. That's why at least one Amazon site has kicked him off permanently. It's something that has never happened to anyone else here.

One look at his posts rather tells us why.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:24:22 GMT
AJ Murray says:
-"What does YEC have to do with abortion?"

Well, let's see... they both have the same fixed, impervious to evidence or reasoning, stances, they both delight in demonising those who disagree with them, they both have the same tendency to lie and exaggerate in support of their chosen dogmas, and more often that not the same people who are YEC are also very much of the same mind as the anti-abortion crowd when it comes to the rights of women... so quite a lot of common ground there.

-"If you were capable of thinking things out you would not resort to useless comments and ad hominem comments."

You obviously, clearly didn't think that through Wayne.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:25:25 GMT
Charlieost says:
Hi PS. I never bother marking anyone down or even looking at the "scores". I always open posts that are considered not adding to the discussion out of curiosity as to why they have been marked down.

If an issue is felt strongly enough about then it is worth posting ones views I feel. This marking down without any other response is just plain lazy.

Regards. Charlie.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:25:28 GMT
AJ Murray says:
Well quite, but Wayne is being almost perversely obtuse these days. Must be something to do with the end-times.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:31:44 GMT
AJ Murray says:
The thing that bothers me about the sides of this debate is that those of us who are pro-choice have thought about what reasons exist for abortion and our position also accommodates those who are anti-abortion - namely that they have a *choice* about what options are open to them. If they don't want an abortion, their views are respected.

The anti-abortion majority here spews rhetoric that utterly ignores the rights of the woman, denies other's a view on the matter and smacks of a desire to order others to conform to their way of thinking. It's repugnant.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:34:38 GMT
"It's repugnant."

And futile.

Their rage is fuelled by the fact, they've lost the argument.

Posted on 18 Nov 2012 20:36:22 GMT
Utterly. It also hints at latent fascism: something not under their control is something that can't be trusted, so must be ruled over.

No disrespect to all moderates and decent religious people out there, but the more zealous believers have too much in common with Nazi ideology for me to even think of respecting them.

In reply to an earlier post on 18 Nov 2012 20:45:03 GMT
Spin says:
CA; I guess you call your son or daughter your "offspring" too.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  37
Total posts:  480
Initial post:  15 Nov 2012
Latest post:  8 Dec 2012

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