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Why Did God Kill 2 Dozen Kids in Oklahoma USA with a Tornado?


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In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 14:05:04 BDT
Dan Fante says:
It's not quite simple enough for me I'm afraid. What are you claiming and what evidence are you providing to back that up?

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 14:09:36 BDT
Last edited by the author on 22 May 2013 14:10:10 BDT
G. Heron says:
Eggball

All you have provided evidence for is the fact that over the centuries theologians have tried desperately to come up with a good argument to support the idea of a god and have failed.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 16:11:09 BDT
Spin says:
REv: The Socratic Method. An answer is not necessarily the truth. The Hegelian construct of Thesis, Anti-thesis and Synthesis can only proceed via the Socratic method.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 18:27:05 BDT
O.Binladen says:
That pretty much sums up every theological argument on here, including yours.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 18:32:39 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Ah, but OB the little voices talk to him, and they tell him god says it's true. So it must be.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 19:27:46 BDT
richard says:
Light,

so you seem to be saying that the people who make and administer the law wanted those children to be in school. i expect that most of the children like school and also wanted to be there. which ever way you look at it people were where they were either because they wanted to be there of because other people expected them to be there. nothing you have said expresses why any of those people were in the wrong place at the wrong time, in any other place than they should have been.

i wrote that the tornado was in the wrong place for them i said nothing about the conditions. of course the conditions had to be right for the tornado who would think otherwise? the tornado existed where and when it did as a consequence of the conditions. a tornado can never be in the wrong place to happen as a meteorological event.

fair enough to question why there were not the safety measures in place should the event occur.

there may have been some people there that should not have been there because they were supposed to be somewhere else but for everyone else they were where they were supposed to be. maybe i should have written 'supposed' or 'expected' rather than 'wanted' but i think it's splitting hairs, children even want to be in school because they would get into trouble if they didn't go and the same with jobs so even though in their ideal world they'd all rather be soaking up the sun on a beach paradise or with their favourite band the reality is that they were where they were when they were supposed to be there.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 20:11:18 BDT
Eggball says:
Ahem...evidence?

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 20:32:48 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Well there's the talking snake, the magic apple, right through to the virgin birth, walking on water, then reincarnation, hell, heaven, god talks to me, etc - those sort of lies.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 22:18:53 BDT
O.Binladen says:
Well if you're denying it then that's a lie right there.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2013 22:57:16 BDT
Henry James says:
If "Eggball" is so friggin smart,
why doesn't s/he make smart arguments?

Ah, sweet mystery of life.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 04:50:55 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 May 2013 04:57:16 BDT
light says:
Richard,

"nothing you have said expresses why any of those people were in the wrong place at the wrong time, in any other place than they should have been."

Right, I didn't pin point it, but I mentioned, " Everyone knows that Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas have many tornadoes,..."

So to me, the states that were mentioned are a part of Tornado Alley, which I would consider to be the wrong place to live and there is never right time to live there. There would never be a right time for me to live in a place that is known as Tornado Alley.

"Texas reports more tornadoes than any other state, though the very large land area should be taken into account. Kansas and Oklahoma rank first and second respectively in the number of tornadoes per square mile."

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 08:57:03 BDT
light,

" There would never be a right time for me to live in a place that is known as Tornado Alley."

But there are many who think god created the earth just for man. That he intricately designed it so it would be just right for us. Except that 9/10ths of it is inhospitable and uninhabitable - what with volcanoes, oceans, polar ice caps, earthquake zones, tornado alleys, hurricanes, deserts, cyclones, floods, tsunamis where did god exactly want us to live? Seems to me he could of made it a bit more human friendly.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 10:08:21 BDT
O.Binladen says:
Why would a benevolent being with limitless knowledge and power create tornados?

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 10:09:28 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 May 2013 11:10:20 BDT
O.Binladen says:
Look for DB's posts, they're scattered with duplicitous claims.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 10:14:23 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Having a laugh at our expense?

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 11:11:56 BDT
Last edited by the author on 23 May 2013 11:12:03 BDT
O.Binladen says:
Indeed, Though I was just watching "Bizarre Weather" and the shot of the collapsing tornado was startling cinematography. I was spell bound.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2013 14:28:36 BDT
richard says:
Light,

natural events that we label disasters, happen around the world all the time as do accidents and deliberate harm that cause suffering and death. of course someone injured or killed through being in a natural 'disaster' or accident/malicious act was in the wrong place at the wrong time to avoid it but that could not be known with certainty until the event happened. not only that but if somewhere was the wrong place to be where was the right place? we can only know with certainty that a time and place was safe after that time has passed in that particular place otherwise it could just be 'out of the frying pan and into the fire'! we can play with statistics as to whether one place is more dangerous to be than another but it's no guarantee of safety.

i believe 'Tornado ally' is a pretty wide belt and i expect there are some places within it that have never been in the path of a tornado. i think it is also a productive agricultural area so quite important as a form of livelihood and production. there are areas of ocean where it can be dangerous to fish yet we need the fish to supply the fishing industry and so on. potentially dangerous areas need to be populated or entered to help sustain our species. you could say that being in the space shuttle that exploded was the wrong place to be yet should we not try to explore space and push our limits? is going into space the wrong place to be or being on oil rigs?

Posted on 24 May 2013 00:39:34 BDT
IF God was both good and all powerful then s/he could have created a world where such things not only didn't happen but didn't NEED to happen. After all, an all powerful and good God could have arranged things in a different way.

Therefore the conclusion must be that any God is missing one or both of those qualities.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 02:02:30 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 May 2013 02:11:33 BDT
light says:
Rev,

"Seems to me he could of made it a bit more human friendly."

I've heard some people say that maybe earth is hell?

I'm curious about something, do you happen to know what science says about the amount of tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes....that happened shortly after the earth was formed? or within the first 1st million years, 10 million years or 100 million years? Does science speculate that there was more or less in the beginning of earth's creation?

thanks light

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 02:32:47 BDT
light says:
Richard,

It looks like you've done some research on tornado ally ;o)

"is going into space the wrong place to be or being on oil rigs?"

Interesting question, look at all the power mongering, manipulation and death that has come about because of the love of oil. If science really wanted to they could have developed an alternative energy source to run out world a long time ago, no?

"of course someone injured or killed through being in a natural 'disaster' or accident/malicious act was in the wrong place at the wrong time to avoid it but that could not be known with certainty until the event happened."

There are some instruments that can detect dangerous activity. So I would like to know why science hasn't developed this technology further so that more lives could be saved? Maybe a little less money could be spent on space travel and a little more spent on developing life saving natural disaster detection and a little more money spent on storm cellars and other safety devices.

Many ancient civilizations had underground tunnels, and some had entire underground cities, so why can't areas which are known to be in dangerous regions have special plans to evacuate to some underground tunnels that would save lives? We can't use the excuse that there isn't enough money when we send so much of it into outerspace.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 02:34:14 BDT
light says:
Dan,

Very precious story about the dog being found alive, and also the story that came after it.

thanks for posting it.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 08:46:55 BDT
light,

When earth formed it was a molten ball of rock. It took ~200 million years to cool enough to form a solid crust. In this state I would expect a lot of volcanic activity and probably much seismic activity too. The volcanoes would have eventually spewed out enough gases to form an atmosphere but it would not have contained oxygen. As for hurricanes, tornados etc I have no idea - it would be pure speculation to guess the weather from that long ago (especially as forecasters can't accurately predict tomorrows weather!). Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago, bacteria did not appear until 3.3 million years ago and it took them 0.5 billion years before they began photosynthesising and changing the atmosphere.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 08:57:22 BDT
Dan Fante says:
No problem. It was very heart-warming, wasn't it?

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 09:28:20 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 May 2013 09:29:37 BDT
Bellatori says:
Funnily enough, common sense does not actually come into this. There are a number of ways that theologians try and argue there way around this problem. The main three are

1. There is no such thing as evil (everything is good but has a hidden purpose that we might not understand) - this I call the 'Mysterious Way' approach. The most mysterious thing about it is that anyone thinks this is sensible BUT they do!! There is a huge body of theology concerning this!
2. Open theism - this boils down to the fact that an omniscient God does not actually know the future because the future does not exist hence free will hence evil. It is quite popular but has more holes in it than a colander.
3. Neo-molinism - There are many possible futures but God choses not to peek. - As with Open theism it requires constraints on God's omniscience. It is also quite popular.

It has been known since 300BC or thereabouts that conceptual Gods that are omniscient, beneficent and omnipotent have issues over free will and evil. 2000+ years on there is still no answer which you might have thought would suggest something to those who promote the idea of monotheistic religion but... no... they still scramble around on the basis that maybe tomorrow the right answer will magically appear. One thing is obvious is that they are not getting much help from heaven on this issue.

In reply to an earlier post on 24 May 2013 13:59:23 BDT
Last edited by the author on 24 May 2013 14:12:27 BDT
richard says:
Light

well this is quite a different position i believe. when talking about power mongering etc you're moving on to moral issues and whether something is morally wrong which is quite different to the idea of being in the wrong place. is it morally wrong to eat lobster because some men are risking their lives to go and fish it? is it morally right to take away their livelihood by banning it because it's dangerous?

science is a continuous process of development and refinement so instruments will get better at predicting certain events. i think it's easy to criticise the amount of money spent on the space program but i understand that a lot of new technology has come out of it that filters it's way down to more mundane uses from which we benefit and talking of the space program hasn't weather prediction and storm tracking become much better now we can track it from space?. there will always be controversy over the allocation of funds and very much a matter that will always be debatable.

what are these underground cities that ancient civilisations had? which civilisations? Tornado Ally does have tornado warning systems in place. i would think it much more likely that any lack of safety measures such as underground shelters would be down to local money allocation and spending than on a governmental level question of 'should we send another shuttle up or build some shelters'! more likely 'should we build another shopping mall or some storm shelters' and the town council went for the mall.

edit misspelling.
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  66
Total posts:  1102
Initial post:  21 May 2013
Latest post:  2 Sep 2013

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