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The Eucharist Elements - The True Presence or just bread and wine

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Showing 26-43 of 43 posts in this discussion
Posted on 22 May 2012 14:14:57 BDT
Isobel Ayres says:
I have to say, I don't understand why people interpret 'this is my body, this is my blood' as literal. Seems apparently obvious that it's metaphor, especially given Jesus' propensity to speak in metaphor throughout the NT.

In reply to an earlier post on 22 May 2012 14:34:31 BDT
Jim Guest says:
But what was obvious to ordinary mortals was not obvious to Roman emperors who greatly wished to keep the old religions going. The RCC and the Eastern Orthodox were their creations.

Posted on 22 May 2012 15:37:16 BDT
Cannibalism is a pretty odd practice, no matter which brand of mythological polish is used on it.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 04:46:10 BDT
Spin says:
Isobel: the reason why chrisyians believe that bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ is because Jesus said so. He said "This is my body which will be given up (sacrificed) for you". He did not mean that the loaf of bread would be crucified. He meant "this bread is my body which will be crucified". Further, he did not say "This bread represents my body" but "This bread IS my body". By taking the communion bread one is thus consuming a body that was sacrificed for oneself. The transubtantion is not unique to christianity. Prior to the birth of monotheism, many ancient religions believed that by drinking the blood of a wild animal or indeed ones enemy gave one that animals or persons powers or spirit. The drinking of actual blood was quite common at the time and even the jews shed blood in animal sacrifices. But part of Jesus' mission was to end the shedding of blood, to end human and animal sacrifice by sacrificing himself, thus taking on the role of the ultimate sacrificial lamb shedding his blood "for you and all mankind"..Wine is made by the crushing, the destruction of the grape, and Jesus' blood would be shed by the crushing of his body. Because in those days blood was considered to be a "life-force", not a mere biological chemical, Jesus is proclaiming "This is my life-force". But because he says "This is my blood" christians take the statement literally without reference to the cultural, religious and social conceptions of the society to which it was addressed. As an ex-catholic, I can say that it has always been my belief that it is not the actual bread or wine that mystically "change" from the material to something divine, but rather it is the act of partaking in the communion, the act of consuming communion bread and wine that constitutes a "change" in the person. That is, I emphasise the "taking" of what is in truth only bread and wine, rather than focussing on the foodstuff. Jesus said "TAKE this bread/wine in memory of me" meaning that the taking of these things constitute the continued existence of his message. The physical act of consuming bread and wine IS the body and blood of christ ie: the church and life-force of christianity. It is only the communion that keeps christianity together. This view of the body of Christ being the church and his blood the "life-force" or "spirit" is held by the organised christian church precisely because it ensures that christianity remains an organised religion.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 12:25:50 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 23 May 2012 12:26:24 BDT]

Posted on 23 May 2012 12:30:36 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Any one know what the gnomes took offence at this time?

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 13:16:51 BDT
Isobel Ayres says:
I deleted my own post 'cause I was talking rubbish, I was.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 13:20:25 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Let's hope the habit spreads. ;)

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 13:56:27 BDT
Spin says:
Isabel: don't worry. We all talk rubbish sometimes. I should know =)

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 14:15:30 BDT
Isobel Ayres says:
Going to go back and delete all your posts, then, Jim?

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 14:16:35 BDT
Jim Guest says:
:) When did you ever find a factual error in my posts?

Posted on 23 May 2012 17:40:16 BDT
David Rudd says:
It is the Holy Spirit dwelling within the Christian which marks God's true presence. For me, it doesn't matter what you think about the other stuff (i.e. Aquinas' Aristotelian philosophy in regard to the eucharist and Protestant objections to it). I'm with Queen Elizabeth 1 on this: 'Whatever God makes it, I take it.'

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 17:44:22 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'It is the Holy Spirit dwelling within the Christian which marks God's true presence.'

The presence of demons is detectable, too.

Posted on 23 May 2012 17:52:45 BDT
David Rudd says:
Here we go... Bible quote: 'The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control' (Galatians 5:22). These things mark God's true presence. If a person claims to be a Christian and does not exhibit these characteristics, at least in some measure, the they give the lie toi their claims.

As a wise man once said: 'You can call yourself a monkey, but it doesn't make you one.'

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 17:59:05 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Satan quotes the Bible.

Posted on 23 May 2012 18:25:41 BDT
David Rudd says:
Satan quotes the Bible in order to subvert it. I do not.

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 18:26:42 BDT
Jim Guest says:

In reply to an earlier post on 23 May 2012 20:01:37 BDT
Pendragon says:
:( When did we ever find a fact in your posts?
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  43
Initial post:  19 May 2012
Latest post:  23 May 2012

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