Why did God let people crucify Jesus?

Spin: Pliny the Younger and Josephus talk about the Christians. According to my edition of The Jewish War, the fragment you talk about was discovered in 1960. Moreover, Josephus spends two pages (p. 138-39) on Pontius. Suetonius wrote, "Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief..." (p.221, The Twelve Caesars). As you note, we also have Philo (a reference I haven't read) and Tacitus, plus the Gospels. There are also the writings that didn't make it into the NT, such as the Gnostics that attest to the existence of Jesus. For God's sake, how many sources does one need, remembering that we are talking about an event that took place about 1,982 years ago?

As for archaeological evidence, why should there be such evidence? Jesus didn't build a civilization, didn't write books. He preached a new version of Judaism. How could one expect relics? There were no ways of recording his speech, except through writing, and the fact that he was itinerant would have mitigated against a scribe recording what he said, particularly since he spent a good part of his time fleeing the religious authorities.

What group of historians doubts the historical Jesus? As far as I know, none. Spin, I consider this claim of yours an aberration in an otherwise excellent record of scholarship.

Shakepen- it is a shame the mystic chippie didn't write things down for posterity.

Shakespen: What group of historians doubt the existence of Jesus? I recommend the following works which address the question of the historical Jesus:
John Allegro "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross"
Don Cupit, "Who was Jesus?"
M Goldstein: "Jesus in the Jewish Tradition"
A.E Harvey "Jesus and the Constraints of History"
J Hick, (Ed) "The Myth of God Incarnate"
J Klaisner "Jesus of Nazereth"
JP Makey "Jesus:The Man and the Myth"
AT Olmstead "Jesus in the light of History"
G A Wells "Did Jesus Exist?", "The Jesus of the Early Christians" and "The Historical Evidence for Jesus" *
FF Bruce "Jesus and Christian origins outside the New Testament"
J Finegan "Archeology of the New Testament"

(* recommended)

Spin: I don't want a library! Give me one title that you believe sums up your thesis. That book I will order and read, just as I'm reading The Missionary Position, which just came today, and was recommended by Harry.

You realize, of course, that Socrates never wrote a word...either did Shakespeare. Yet their existence and contribution to culture is undoubted. I will welcome your source so that I can refute it.

CA: As I just wrote in a post, neither did Socrates or Shakespeare!

Isobel: As they say in modern parlance: Go, girl!

Hi Roger Edward Deshon, Thank you for providing the text John 14:9-10. I'd no idea where to look!

Hi Harry Warraich, I've never heard of Jesus chatting to anyone before - he just had a very serious turn of mind. Perhaps Jesus' chat was everyone else's preaching and he preached nearly all the time. I can imagine one of his disciples saying to the others, "Jesus was chatting to me this morning, you'll never guess what He said." And all the others promptly got ready for heavy duty enlightenment which they were sure would follow. In the Bible it says "Jesus wept." It never says "Jesus laughed." Surely he chatted and laughed sometime.

Shakespen: Sorry, your question implied that you were not aware of any historians who doubted the existence of Jesus. As to your point about Socrates,in the philosophy community the question as to whether Socrates existed is quite serious and the answer has quite serious implicartions for Platonic philosophy. There are those, including myself, who do not believe such a man ever existed. Just as the Greeks (and indeed modern societies) could invent gods with human qualities, so they also invented men with god-like qualities...If these me existed they are idealised by thier followers. And, indeed, there is contemporary debate as to whether Shakespeare existed, but this concerns the question as to who wrote the plays, whether the name "shakespeare" is psuedonymous, and not whether someone existed to write the plays (as obviously someone did exist because we have the plays).

But no-one worships either of them, and it matters no a jot who wrote them.

Q. "How many Bible fundamentalists are required to change a light bulb"?
A. "The Bible doesn't mention lightbulbs".

I have often been annoyed with these blinkered 'speak where the Bible speaks, silent where the Bible is silent' legalists. No one is mentioned in Scripture as going to the toilet ergo no one did. They say that you can only have The Eucharist / Communion on Sunday because The Bible doesn't mention any other day except the first day of the week - Sunday.

Hypothetically I wrote a letter to someone that stated I went to the cinema on Saturday. I may have gone again on the following Thursday but as I'd already posted the letter the second visit didn't get mentioned. In one hundred years time someone read my letter and deduced I never went to the pictures on any other day except Saturday. It's ludicrous.

For anyone interested, you can buy, from Koorong, the NIV Bible on CD-ROM { Pradis } and then have Bible Chapters and Verses to hand.

You can also cut and past the verses into e-mails and Word documents.

As example you can type in 'angels' into the search window and every Chapter and Verse in the OT and NT will be displayed for that word, along with cross references.

Herbert, Thank you for quoting 2nd Timothy 3:16. My Holy Bible New International Version has "All Scripture is God-breathed ..." which is a very striking way of putting it.

"All Scripture is God-breathed ..."

...and about as substantial.

Hi C A Small, You'll perhaps find this odd. This morning I was thinking of a quotation about the "wandering magical chippie of myth." I think I read it on-line some time ago but I can't remember where. What a co-incidence that I find your post this afternoon about the "mystic chippie."

Does he do mushy peas and curry sauce?

i have a sudden yearning to dip some chips in a tub of curry sauce.

He's great with fish one way and another - catching it, cooking it and making it go round but peas and sauce? No idea! We'll just have to live in the mystery.

richard, It was Oscar Wilde who said he could resist anything but temptation. Would church attendances improve if churches were next a fish and chipper?

i think there was a gospel that mentioned condiments at the sermon on the mount but it was declared heretical and all copies destroyed. i understand the early church fathers thought that mentioning condiments devalued the miracle as every one knows food goes a lot further with condiments (pickled eggs/onions, curry sauce, mushy peas ) and a can of coke.

possibly, especially on rainy nights as long as you could eat in the pews. next to a pub wouldn't work so well for them though! a cash point in the vestry maybe? probably next to the poor box!

Today I read a newspaper article about an american church that's offering free membership at the church's gym for people who attend the services in an effort to improve on numbers.

makes sense to get fit to fight the good fight.

Makes sense for Christians to get fit as well.

Roger

"For anyone interested, you can buy, from Koorong, the NIV Bible on CD-ROM {Pradis} and then have Bible Chapters and Verses to hand. You can also cut and past the verses into e-mails and Word documents. As example you can type in 'angels' into the search window and every Chapter and Verse in the OT and NT will be displayed for that word, along with cross references."

Alternatively, they can visit www.biblegateway.com and do all of that and more online for free!