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Atheism:Is ignorance and prejudice and bigotry enough?


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Showing 1-25 of 34 posts in this discussion
Posted on 27 Apr 2012 19:36:55 BDT
Spin says:
"Real People"? Of course not...Are not these threads pure fantasy?...

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Apr 2012 08:44:57 BDT
""Misrepresentation"? Sorry, but the words "Pot" "Kettle" and "Black" spring to mind.."
One example of me misrepresenting the position of another please?

In reply to an earlier post on 26 Apr 2012 08:44:29 BDT
Mr Radcliffe, my post was aimed at a different Tom. Tom M.

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 19:18:30 BDT
Spin says:
And, regarding the original question, what would you guys know about "ignorance"? You know a lot about "Wisdom" but tell us peasants what ignorance is....

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 19:08:45 BDT
Tom M says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 18:20:08 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2012 18:21:59 BDT
Spin says:
Shakespen: Women think women are equal to men. They do not realise that in attempting to emulate men, they lose the respect of men...jWhy don't men try to emulate women? Why is the Male objective valued more than the female? (Edit: Excuse me while I don my "Dallas2 outfit. I'm quite attractive in drag!) =)

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 18:07:43 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'and even had women in leadership positions'

The Great Big Liar is back.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 17:57:46 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2012 18:00:25 BDT
Shakepen says:
Isobel: The Apostle Paul thought women were equal with men and even had women in leadership positions, but after his death, the whole idea changed because other, influential Christians argued that Eve corrupted Adam. It has been downhill ever since until the late, late 20th century. Even now, women still haven't achieved complete equality in the West. One can only imagine what it is like for women in Saudi Arabia et al where they can't even drive!

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 16:57:59 BDT
Spin says:
Us guysl love our mums. but to claim your mum is, was and ever will be a virgin stretches the freudian psychology a bit far....

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:57:22 BDT
Jim Guest says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:55:26 BDT
Spin says:
Isobel; Yes, but as foul as women are, the Virgin mary is worshipped. The perfect woman; she who refrains from any involvement with reality. Hmm...

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:54:45 BDT
Isobel Ayres says:
Pagan, now, is it? I thought your usual position was we're all Christians and just pretending. Make your mind up, boyo.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:52:00 BDT
Jim Guest says:
That's this pagan world- lurching from lie to travesty, and back again, skipping the sensible, frightening middle position.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:35:21 BDT
Last edited by the author on 25 Apr 2012 16:37:49 BDT
Isobel Ayres says:
Very mediaeval view of women, isn't it? Women in early madiaeval times were considered lustful and base and degraded, and men were to guard themselves against them. Men were considered the pure ones. This view only began to change with the wandering minstrels, poets like Chretienne de Troy and the cult of courtly love, and then eventually ended up with the Victorian reversal - irreproachable pure womanhood and predatory men.

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 16:26:21 BDT
Spin says:
God gathered men as his disciples and He detests women. Women are corrupt (=0). Women are so regarded by the church as to have a seperate faith worshipping the Virgin. bUt women are base, ignorant and the cause of sexual sin. Really? Shame on the Virgin mary! (Sex with a virgin, God is a lucky so-and so. eh? She can't compare him to anyone else...)

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:22:35 BDT
Spin - I couldn't agree more.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:21:23 BDT
Mr G, I am not interested in making either of the points you have suggested that I make. Other people have made these points over and over. It is not for me a case of which set of views is right and which wrong. It is that views are just views. I am far more interested in the way that people argue than in what they are arguing about. The ways in which people construct their version of reality are fascinating to me. So I am struck by the similarities between factions.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:19:09 BDT
Spin says:
T: If there is a Deity, he/she/it does not care what you personally believe or how you personally act. To be a "good" person, is not to argue a point but to liv the reality of your conviction. God created you as you are; it is up to you to as to whether you use that to help others or use it to argue against those whose idea of divinity extends to a showing of "Britains got talent" =)

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 16:14:06 BDT
So what you are saying is that God permits everything but only 'wills' certain things. It is his 'will' that we have free will and that means that we often oppose his will. Have I got that right?

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 14:19:23 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 09:37:05 BDT
You can misrepresent my positions as often as you want Tom, but I'd honestly love to have an honest discussion with you on the central topic.

Start one thread, with one argument that a god exists or that atheism is incoherent . Stick to the argument and let's see how clear and reasoned your position is.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 09:35:20 BDT
"Are mathematical truths true when no one is thinking them? Are they physical things? Is logic physical? How much does the principle of non-contradiction weigh? How about truth and beauty?"
Here you appear to be attempting a Transcendental argument for the existence of God. And this argument holds no water. Things are true even when they are unthought, yes. But being true and existing are very different things. A materialist can account for transcendent truths, it is only a strawman of the position that cannot.

"At the end of the day, the 'new' atheism noise is mostly about things like abortion or the idea that its just fine for men to attempt to have immitative sex with other men. "
Actually new atheism was mostly a response to islamic terrorism and creationist legal attacks on education. It was a response to the liberties of the irreligious being eroded on the grounds of religion.

"to explain, order, reason, purpose , meaning, value, love, and intelligence, they offer disorder, un-reason, no purpose, no meaning, no value, no love, and no intelligence. "
Do you want the things used to actually explain those things?
Order: Physical properties of matter and energy
Reason: Evolved processing of information in the brain.
Purpose: No purpose exists external to concious agents
Meaning: No meaning exists external to concious agents
Value: Value is ascribed to things by conscious agents
Love: Love is a biochemical and neuronal effect of a concious agent over other objects (usually conscious agents)
Intelligence: Like reason, is data processing within evolved brains.

"Atheism is mostly ignorance and prejudice elevated to the status of virtue, "
No, Atheism is mostly a willigness to think about the big ideas. Is there a god is a question that has been forced onto memeber of society by the religious and the default position on that is "I don't know". The theist never provides any reason to move closer to yes but the lack of any coherence to the position provides plenty of reason to move towards no.

"We have seen some hundred and thirty million murders from atheism in the last hundred years,"
No, No you haven't.

"and of course this is not counting the youngest who were killed before they could draw their first breath."
Abortion is only murder if you vastly pervert the meaning of murder.

"If a person will kill their own child in the womb, what will they not sink to? "
Most pro choicers are theists. Most theists (in the UK and the US) are pro choice.

"We should no expect any honest dialogue but as Williams accurately asesses, only ignorance and its father, prejudice. "
I agree, but it will be coming exactly the opposite way.

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 01:38:40 BDT
Jim Guest says:
Will.

In reply to an earlier post on 25 Apr 2012 01:38:21 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'Catholicism for instance is the immediate presence of God.'

Now that really would fill their trousers.

Posted on 25 Apr 2012 01:30:35 BDT
Tom M says:
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  10
Total posts:  34
Initial post:  24 Apr 2012
Latest post:  27 Apr 2012

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