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What is the Best Evidence for God? Be an Advocate.


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Initial post: 20 Jun 2013 14:37:46 BDT
Henry James says:
Pretend you're a lawyer:
What would you put forward as the best evidence for God? Let's say the Christian God?

Often suggested -
a. There IS a universe.
b. It looks like it was designed.

Especially you atheists - pretend you're a debater and take the other point of view, just for fun.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 17:44:11 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 Jun 2013 17:46:16 BDT
AJ Murray says:
M'lud, ladies and gentleman of the jury, and gtL.

No-one disputes the first premise of this case. It is not reasonable for us to doubt that the Universe exists. We would not argue against such a proposition, for to do so would be to invite ridicule. So we shall accept this and move to the second, and more problematic, of the premises being brought before us today.

Note that m'learned friend simply asserts that it 'looks like' it was designed, so this is mere opinion. Nothing more substantive than that. But even if we were to take this further, to assert that our Universe was in fact designed what then, you may ask, is not designed? What is our so-called designed Universe being compared to? For although we may distinguish between the bird and Boeing 737 both would in fact be designed and there is no distinction to be made. This is an absurdity since we can, and do, distinguish between the two.

It is an offered opinion of appearance of design, nothing more, and one of most questionable logic to say the least. There is ample reasonable doubt present to allow us to dismiss this premise as being of most dubious merit.

The case for the prosecution rests.

Posted on 20 Jun 2013 17:54:25 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 Jun 2013 18:17:38 BDT
Muscovy says:
Is the lawyer trying to bail God out of something?

Posted on 20 Jun 2013 18:06:04 BDT
Ian says:
I live on a planet which provides EXACTLY the right conditions for me to live. Even in our solar system there was a one in eight chance of that happening. But when you add up the 21 sextillion stars and assuming that most of them has a planet or two then the chances of me being born on a planet with the right conditions for me to live are vanishingly small; so a divine being guiding my life seems a much more plausible explanation than just blind luck.

Plus all you guys are here too; all 7 billion of you! That's even less likely; surely if it was blind chance most of use would have been born on other planets where it was much too cold or too hot or toxic with radiation or there was no atmosphere to breath or at the very least, no ice-cream.

So at 8 planets per star, 21 sextillion (that's 10^21) stars the chances of all 7 billion of us being here is less than 1 in 1200 billion sextillion (that 12 x 10^32 or thereabouts). Surely that puts God beyond a reasonable doubt?

I rest my case.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:09:56 BDT
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In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:20:34 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:30:01 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:22:37 BDT
AJ Murray says:
If we both rest, i think that means the Judge has to sum up and the Jury decide on a verdict.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:27:05 BDT
AJ Murray says:
99.9% of the Universe is inimical to our form of life, so my favoured analogy when someone declares the Universe as being designed for life is to point to Domestos(kills 99.9% of germs) as being designed to encourage germ growth.

Posted on 20 Jun 2013 18:30:19 BDT
Is there a good book about it?

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:30:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 Jun 2013 18:38:25 BDT
richard says:
nope, can't think of a reasonable thing. i'd guess it's between .........."so many people believe it must be true" and "So many people have had religious experiences that it must be true". however neither seems reasonable. you'd need to be O J Simpson's lawyer and just hope to confuse everybody.

EDIT oh hang on that would be a theologian then!

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:32:05 BDT
[Deleted by Amazon on 9 Jul 2013 14:30:02 BDT]

Posted on 20 Jun 2013 18:39:16 BDT
Phil says:
All engineers, architects and designers create blueprints. These are consciously thought out and produced with reference to known laws of material-physics which will affect the eventual outcome of the blueprint in question. Every phenomenon in Nature, from a Solar System to a crystalline structure, has inevitably a blueprint. The blueprint of a living, sentient being is an extremely complex affair. If a human consciousness is capable of producing a viable blueprint, what kind of Consciousness produced the natural phenomena of which we are a part?

Posted on 20 Jun 2013 18:46:07 BDT
Mrs. F. Shaw says:
Henry says: Especially you atheists - pretend you're a debater and take the other point of view, just for fun.

I think Henry is a mass debater :)

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 18:51:09 BDT
AJ Murray says:
Question begging at its worst. Where is the blueprint for the Universe? For a Solar system? For a crystalline structure? Oh, wait, there aren't any, so no need for a designer.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 21:40:39 BDT
C. A. Small says:
Aj gets my vote.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 21:53:59 BDT
Spin says:
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In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 22:12:17 BDT
Ian says:
Well I'm disappointed; I thought I had made a very convincing case. Remember, the point of a debate is not to vote for the point of view you agree with but the debater who made the more convincing case. I almost convinced myself it was so good!

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 22:19:06 BDT
Spin says:
IN: Poor you...My heart aches...

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 22:21:08 BDT
O.Binladen says:
I'm not convinced that you convincing yourself that you were convincing has convinced me that you were convincing, and I therefor am unconvinced.

In reply to an earlier post on 20 Jun 2013 22:22:49 BDT
Last edited by the author on 20 Jun 2013 22:23:23 BDT
Ian says:
That's got me convinced; you win!

Which is surprising, because I had God on my side.

Posted on 21 Jun 2013 00:06:38 BDT
Henry James says:
from Rationalwiki

The following is a compilation of all scientific evidence for the existence of a deity:
1.
2.
3.
4.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Jun 2013 00:15:33 BDT
AJ Murray says:
Have you seen their page on the scientific evidence of evolution being a hoax?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence_of_evolution_being_a_hoax

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Jun 2013 00:38:07 BDT
The dinosaurs. Big giants who wandered the earth over millions of years ago so powerful and...

What? They weren't designed by God? Well who put them there? They never existed? I thought they found bones dating back millions of years? How old? 6000 years? Oh come off it, I'll show you a tree with more than 6000 rings!

Would the judge perhaps consider a 'gift'?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Jun 2013 03:00:23 BDT
Henry James says:
Yes, good page.

Posted on 21 Jun 2013 06:33:43 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 22 Jun 2013 00:59:46 BDT]
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This discussion

Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  30
Total posts:  256
Initial post:  20 Jun 2013
Latest post:  2 Nov 2013

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