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Attheists; Why Are they Here Really?


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Initial post: 7 Aug 2011 11:02:41 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Aug 2011 11:15:36 BDT
Chris says:
I'm going to posit the notion, he said pompously after doing a spell check on the word posit. This is probably going to put my balance at the bank of karma way in the red, but I'm a glutton for punishment.

I came here as an atheist, but have been turned off it, not because I've found God, or am anti science, but there's just something about the 'thinking atheist' attitude that leaves me cold.

There are two things one could do when faced with a person who's into astrology and crystals and the like: You could say, there's a person who isn't harming anyone, and is trying to find happiness in something that may not be logical, and allow them to go on their way unmolested, or you could throw stones at them and call them weirdo and cackle like young boys with the local oddball.

And here's my theory: Most social networking chat thingies have an even split of male and female - in fact if anything the chat thing appeals more to the female than the male, but the atheists on here seem mostly to be male.

Now you can give lots of clever justifications for why you're here, but might it just be a case of boys down the local tip taking great pleasure in smashing up a telly? Didn't you do enough vandalising and bullying as boys, and are feeling a bit undernourished in that department? Because it sure can look like that at times.

By the way I've come to this one dressed up like Ned Kelly.

Posted on 7 Aug 2011 11:06:18 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Aug 2011 11:12:50 BDT
Read the collected posts of Paul Davidson, Hidden Jewels and Glorify the Lord. Then tell us again who you think is causing a problem.

By the way, it's spelt 'atheist'.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 11:16:40 BDT
Chris says:
ding... clang.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 11:39:57 BDT
Drew Jones says:
"I came here as an atheist, but have been turned off it, not because I've found God, or am anti science, but there's just something about the 'thinking atheist' attitude that leaves me cold."
Sorry to break this to you but this is not a rejection of atheism but of being an atheist who thinks. If you have no belief in a god you are an atheist, whether you choose to intellectually justify that position is a different matter.

"There are two things one could do when faced with a person who's into astrology and crystals and the like: You could say, there's a person who isn't harming anyone, and is trying to find happiness in something that may not be logical, and allow them to go on their way unmolested, or you could throw stones at them and call them weirdo and cackle like young boys with the local oddball."
Those people while not necessarily doing physical harm to themselves or anyone else do like to think their idea (i.e. their intellectual claim) is valid and true. They clearly care deeply about the validity of the idea, the fact that they aren't able to reasonably justify it as the intent of Tge claim merits and this news hurts them is due to poor fact checking. The person who makes them aware of this failing may be causing hurt to their ego but is doing their intellect a favour.

"Now you can give lots of clever justifications for why you're here, but might it just be a case of boys down the local tip taking great pleasure in smashing up a telly? Didn't you do enough vandalising and bullying as boys, and are feeling a bit undernourished in that department? Because it sure can look like that at times."
Religion makes the most incredible claims. They have set up churches, synagogues, mosques and more to promote these ideas untested. As far as I'm aware they still have these and they are not open forums. Now you're suggesting they should get the internet too.

Basically if you are going to claim something publically anyone can challenge you. Being asked to think about your beliefs is not a bad thing.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 12:25:28 BDT
[Deleted by the author on 7 Aug 2011 12:25:42 BDT]

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 12:26:12 BDT
Chris,

"I came here as an atheist, but have been turned off it"

Unless you got religion, it's hard to see how you can be turned off it. I can see how you could be turned off by some atheists as I am, but not atheism itself.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 12:37:39 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'Unless you got religion'

What a great level of discourse.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 12:42:14 BDT
Some of the theists here seem to think that the act of simply asking a question that challenges their beliefs is rude and aggressive. It isn't, and enquiry shouldn't be stifled. They seem to want a forum where everyone sits around saying how nice everyone else is.
Challenging ideas is the route to advancement and it isn't a one-way street. Anyone's ideas are valid targets, regardless of their being a theist or an atheist. Challenging ideas isn't vandalism.
I'd question whether the woo ideas expressed here aren't harmful. Take Anita as an example. Her ideas are - and let's be fair here - absolutely barking mad. She doesn't keep them to herself however, but scatters them across the internet and tries to get people to buy her book detailing those ideas. The sort of irrational lack-ofevidence thinking that she exemplifies is harmful to society and does need to be challenged.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 12:49:25 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'rude and aggressive.'

Like 'you got religion'. :)

Like 'absolutely barking mad'. :)

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:18:51 BDT
Chris says:
Yes I appreciate that. Not very good at analysing what I say. I suppose I mean the atheist gang.

It would have been easy for me to fall in with that crowd, and use Google to make myself look more knowledgable than I am (probably would only have fooled myself though), but I just couldnt do it. I just don't have enough need to destroy people's beliefs because they're unscientific. And a couple of odds and sods I've read with a religious vibe since being here have made me happier. They've made me look at things in a way that made me a better person, and as a result, made the world around me a noticeably happier place. People have been going out of their way to be extra kind to me just lately. Might be seeing what I want to see but I don't care. It's all good. Why attack stuff like that? I'll just never join that gang.

Posted on 7 Aug 2011 13:19:03 BDT
In days gone by religion got a free pass - these days are over. Atheists have always been around but nowadays people who think for themselves are no longer willing to tolerate the disproportionate power and influence wielded by those claiming to know what they cannot know.

The recent barbaric behaviour perpetrated by the followers of Allah and the gross criminal indecency perpetrated upon children by Catholicism has done more damage to religion than atheism ever has, yet believers remain.

The sheep-like mentality is the cohesive power behind religion, in the interest of humanity I see it as a duty to erode this power as much as possible. Because free-thinkers lack a sheep-like mentality, getting atheists to behave in a cohesive manner is difficult - sometimes likened to herding cats - but I think if rational political parties could be formed then possibly the demise of religion would be hastened.

By choosing to believe rather than think, religious people deny what it means to be human, I see that as a tragedy.

Much more could be said but I dislike overly long forum posts so I'll end here.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:29:35 BDT
Chris says:
I have no time for people that are here to sell books, so chip away at them all you like.
No one can talk me into believing anything I don't want to believe, and neither can they do it to you. You're not protecting society from anything.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:33:40 BDT
Chris,

"...use Google to make myself look more knowledgable"

Some people possibly do that but good probing questions would expose them. Using the web to verify things however is fine, that's one of the benefits of it.

"People have been going out of their way to be extra kind to me just lately."

Often its wise to question why they're being kind, sometimes they feel weak and/or isolated and just want an ally.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:34:09 BDT
Jim Guest says:
'The recent barbaric behaviour perpetrated by the followers of Allah and the gross criminal indecency perpetrated upon children by Catholicism has done more damage to religion than atheism ever has, yet believers remain.'

It was believers who, well before 9/11, or RC child abuse, warned that some Muslims, and Catholic leaders, are sociopaths. Denyer knows this very well.

So why are these people here?

To commit crimes.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:35:52 BDT
Oh yes, we are. Irrational thinking, unfortunately, still permeates society, and it is harmful. We have resources being allocated according to religious and other woo ideas. We have crimes committed in the name of religion. We have people being taken advantage of through this sort of thinking. There is a need to expose it and change things.

Posted on 7 Aug 2011 13:38:22 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Aug 2011 13:40:42 BDT
Chris's complaint really comes down to 'how dare you criticise religion.'

And p*** off, Paul. You're not fooling anyone.

Posted on 7 Aug 2011 13:48:20 BDT
Chris says:
Just the other day This forum was being described as pointless and incapable of changing anything, and now it's the frontline of some righteous battle against the insideous forces of evil.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 13:57:28 BDT
Jim Guest says:
The point of this 'forum' is to show conclusively that, if there is no hell, there damn well ought to be one.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:04:45 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Aug 2011 17:04:00 BDT
A Reader says:
Chris,
In counterbalance, I could give you a long list of posts where the people you may believe are in the nice camp have been petty, offensive, rude, ignorant, sheeplike, biased, humourless and more.
I believe polarising people into two entirely imaginary camps, where one are merely nasty atheists the other thick as ****(variously, depending upon bias), isn't true at all and sure doesn't help - this itself is a product of sheeplike, black and white thinking. It only can seem that way when begin to identify yourself with one camp, for whatever reason, and then the prejudices and herding instincts strengthen. Equally those like Sombrio who repeatedly state our communications are pointless and people are here with nothing more worthwhile to do, really do speak for themselves, their own communication and their own philosophy. I utterly reject the idea, as do others.

Despite a popular opinion and institutions to the contrary, there is nothing noble whatsoever in ignorance and it is NOT required in order to be "religious" (I would then challenge the term here).

That there is a largely untapped, significant "middle ground" here between the "gangs" in our minds is a point I along with some others, have made over and over.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:12:32 BDT
If I remember correctly, it was Sombrio who described it as pointless (except for entertainment). Is that what you're referring to?

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:26:46 BDT
DB says:
Chris, I think you came to the wrong place if you were merely looking for like-minded atheists, the majority on here aren't true atheists, they are simply anti-religion.

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:35:51 BDT
Drew Jones says:
"... they are simply anti-religion."
What a terrible thing!

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:45:17 BDT
Being an atheist and being anti-religion are not mutually exclusive.
If all a person wants is to chat with like-minded people, then let them, but it would become very boring as it reduces to simple mutual back-slapping. It is in challenging ourselves that we grow.
"The unexamined life is not worth living for a human being" - Socrates as quoted/portrayed by Plato (I think).

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 15:55:28 BDT
Last edited by the author on 7 Aug 2011 15:55:40 BDT
"they are simply anti-religion."

How wicked of them: to be unbelievers without another's permission. :)

In reply to an earlier post on 7 Aug 2011 16:19:57 BDT
DB says:
Drew Jones says 'What a terrible thing!'

It can be if it leads to the kind of things that Chris mentioned in his original post.
Some people do align themselves with certain groups in order to be able to behave in a certain way that may otherwise not be acceptable.

I wonder how many would openly call themselves atheist anywhere else but on this site.
Do you discuss your atheism with friends or work colleagues Drew?
Do you ridicule religious friends and colleagues because of their beliefs?
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Discussion in:  religion discussion forum
Participants:  59
Total posts:  1656
Initial post:  7 Aug 2011
Latest post:  4 Aug 2012

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