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Was a person called Jesus, ever really crucified?


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In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 07:16:43 GMT
Sorry if I didn't make it clear - I'm not of the opinion that Christians are into human sacrifice =)

I agree, dieing so as to save another is a commendable sacrifice and not remotely similar to cutting someones heart out and offering it to the gods. I guess that's the trouble that comes with blanket statements - there's always a grey area.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 10:53:35 GMT
Reson says:
1 Corinthians 15:13-17

New King James Version (NKJV)


13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up-if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
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In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 10:56:06 GMT
Reson,

Well that's the point of Christianity isn't it?

If you believe Christ died for your sins, you worship him and thank him.

If you think Christ and the disciples lied, or chinese whispers got the better of them, then you follow another belief.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 13:14:23 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 13:23:24 GMT
Reson says:
No Harry,
Its what the bible says. You will know the truth and the truth will make you free. There is the belief that jesus died on the cross, and the truth that he was not crucified.
All you have to do is ASK, Matt 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
All will be revealed in time, Thats why we live in the time so to speak of the Book of Re-vealations. Things are being revealed to those who have the mark of the father, as opposed to the mark of the beast. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 13:56:19 GMT
Reson your beliefs coincide with my early beliefs. I.e Islamic beliefs.

I do not know of any Christian sect that claim Christ was NOT crucified.

Also, Corinthians 15: 1-12 puts your verse into context.
They are saying, IF Christ did not rise again, then Christianity is fraudulent...
But they believe he did rise again!

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 14:25:22 GMT
Reson says:
harry
first and foremost i belong to no religious sect. Although I have studied under a great spiritual master, and belonged to the mystic order of melchezidek Heb 5:7 Jesus was made a priest after the order of melchizedek.
Islam would be another story, Jesus mentioned that a comforter would come, that the spirit of truth would come after him. religion is a very touch subject,
So who is the comforter jesus speaks of? And when he comes he will reprove the world of sin? So who is the other person that will do this? if jesus was meant to die for our sins?
Jesus also says i have many things to say to you but you cannot bear it yet. Jesus did not complete his teachings??
But when the spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all truth. So this person after jesus will guide you into ALL Truth. Who is this person?

John 16:7-14

King James Version (KJV)

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

christianity would lose alot of revenue if the truth was revealed. they would go bankrupt. LOL!!! ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 14:32:53 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 14:36:53 GMT
Well the comforter could be Muhammad... but he hasn't brought the world out of sin, nor did he Glorify Jesus, he said he wasn't a son of God, just the Messiah. Or the comforter could be Jesus on his second coming. Did he leave enough clues?

And do you mean, that Jesus didn't die because he has to come back?

[christianity would lose alot of revenue if the truth was revealed. they would go bankrupt]

So what is this truth? Everyone speaks like they know, but then they conceal it from the masses.

[Jesus was made a priest after the order of melchizedek.]

I thought only descendants of Aaron could be made priests? (Levites)
Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, hence why he was King David's descendant?

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 14:35:10 GMT
"christianity would lose alot of revenue if the truth was revealed. they would go bankrupt. LOL!!! ;-)"

So would all religions, but they wont listen to the truth despite what anyone says, so nothing will happen at all.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 14:43:30 GMT
Reson says:
The truth is not for everyone. it is for only the elite few the elect. Matt 24-24 If it were possible they shall decieve the very elect.
Something is happening, but its all about being intune to the right frequency. There will be a new heaven and a new earth.
Truth has come and all false things shall perish, this includes all your religions. its all cycles. Religion has passed its sell by date.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 14:50:30 GMT
Are you on the side of Christ? or with this... comforter fellow?

I don't understand what you're saying completely. I get it that we're metaphorically entering a new time... but what do you think will replace religion should it go?

And you've skipped over a few of my questions.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 15:12:28 GMT
Reson says:
The real Jesus or Yashua died at 120 years old. in Eygpt. He would of been buried in the valley of the kings.
No jesus will not becoming back.
Jesus said he would send his Angel or messenger Rev 1-1. The seven seals was opened in 1970. there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. This represents the the teaching of the truth between 1970-2000. 30 yrs
Now 2000-2030 is the time for the end of the world. it was extended.
Yes alot of truth has been concelaed from the masses. But when the truth is spoken it often sounds stranger than fiction.
religion is a science but on a very weak scale. A new science has been born and is in its very early stages. it will take over from religion. Everyone now has a chance what side they will choose. And yes a great cleansing is on its way. a positive cataclysm to end the old and begin the new order of things.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 15:21:15 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 15:26:27 GMT
A new science?...

like scientology?

Christ sent his angel to speak to John in Rev 1:1... I don't know how you're making the link between that and an angel being sent "instead".

So Yahshua ben Mariam died in Egypt? Very strange... where is your evidence for this?

Jesus also said multiple times that he would return, as God's right hand to deal justice.

He said clearly "I tell you the truth, before these things happen I will return to you"

Sir Isaac Newton said the world wont end before 2060... at least I get to have children someday... hopefully.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 15:26:19 GMT
Reson says:
many will be called and only a few will be chosen.
I do not believe in any religion, so jesus and mohammed have no meaning to me. its all sugar coated fantasy.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 15:27:14 GMT
So who is calling you?...

God?

Buddha?

do Jesus and Muhammed know the same things as you?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 15:35:09 GMT
Reson says:
Issa Ibn maryam, yes. Join the masonic lodges and climb the ranks.
A new science, no not scientology, nor freemasonry, these are all weaker science's.
Sir isaac was a well known freemason. But even they do not have the truth only 3 degrees honored to them. We walk the realms of the 9th degree. Anytime now between now and 2030.
And no Jesus will not be returning. The resurrection has nothing to do with bringing dead bodies back to life. but being mentally resurrected ready for the new heaven and earth. For we have been mentally dead for the last eveolutionary cycle.

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 15:48:40 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 15:50:26 GMT
[Join the masonic lodges and climb the ranks]

So if you don't mean freemasonry... you mean Illuminati?

Jesus was a mason too then?

Also... in your ideology, is there such thing as eternal life?

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 15:53:20 GMT
Reson says:
They knew what they needed for their day and time.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 15:55:38 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 16:19:44 GMT
Reson says:
Jesus belonged to certain mystical orders yes.
Yes there is eternal life. But not in the essence of being in the same body for ever. Energy does not die. Only God incarnates can have eternal life. You would be given powers to connection with the sun, earth and moon. Right now is the time and cycle where death sciences rules. Religion happens to be the last and weakest science of this cycle before it scientifically dies(Hell) thats why through out history and what is happening on earth now is part and parcel of this death cycle. And then there is another cycle where life sciences rules. (Heaven)
People give the illuminati to much power, they work with certain sciences, but they will give way to the new science coming in. they have no choice.:-)

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 16:13:13 GMT
Samuel: What actually happened at Jesus' crucifixion

Let me write a few lines to-night, as I have not written you for a long time, and desire to tell you of the scene that was depicted to you to-night by the words and music at the church.

I was present at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus and saw all that took place and the wonderful display of the forces of nature, that were presented to you to-night in the drama of the crucifixion.

Well, as you may not know, many of the scenes that were so forcibly presented to your imagination, never had any reality in fact and the drama was the production of the oriental mind which was so often used to depict things that had their origin, only in such eastern imaginations.

When Jesus was crucified there was no great concourse of people; because he was considered as a common malefactor, paying the penalties that followed the violation of the law that he was charged with violating. Of course there were soldiers and a large number of the members of the Jewish Sanhedrim and a few followers present, but there was no unusual crowd to witness the execution. He was not the only one crucified at the time and the other two were considered just as the Jews considered him - violator of their laws and one to be punished by hanging on the cross.

The words that he is supposed to have uttered at the time of his extremis, were not uttered by him and no words that he may have spoken could have been heard by any of his followers, for they were kept away from the immediate scene of his execution, and it was only after he had been pronounced dead and found ready to be removed from the cross, that his followers were permitted to approach his body and remove it from the tree. The others, who were engaged in the execution did not hear any words of his, and as I have said, his followers could not hear and thus be able to report any supposed saying of his. So far as known, he died as bravely - that is without fear or doubt as to the future as did any other who has suffered the same fate.

The words that he is supposed to have uttered, were not so uttered, and he did not call upon the Father for His help, or to cause the bitter cup to pass from him, and all reports of what he said or did at that time are not true, but merely the imaginings of those who wrote of him in later times.

There was no sudden breaking up of nature or things material, and the accounts of the graves opening, and the bodies arising therefrom and being seen and talked with in the city are purely fiction, and have no foundation in fact.

I know that Christians of today will not be ready to receive these statements as true, because of the long years of belief in these things that have obtained during the centuries. Why men should want to believe in these representations of things that never happened it is hard to understand, for in themselves that have no significance, except that mere endeavor to make as dramatic and impressive on humanity the wonderful circumstances that they allege surrounded the death of Jesus.

If they will only think, they must realize that the death of Jesus, accompanied by all the startling environments described in the Bible did not afford one iota of help in way of saving a human soul, or teaching that soul the true way to the Father's Kingdom. His life is what had the effect and not his death; and the sooner men learn that Truth the sooner will they learn the fact that no death of Jesus could save them from themselves, or show them the way to the Celestial Kingdom.

I know that men will not want to believe what I have written, and continue in their belief that all these tragic circumstances surrounded the death of Jesus. And I suppose that this belief will continue with them for a long time to come. But what I have said is true, and no man can by any possible workings of God's laws find any hope or assurance of immortality in these things. You may ask me how I know that Jesus uttered no words at the time of his death, and I can answer by saying that he told me so himself.

He has not been present to-night at any of the churches where his death on the cross is celebrated, and will not be until after the time of the great worship and adoration of him by the churches has gone by. This worship is all very distasteful to him and are such that he does not desire to witness, and hence, he remains in his home in the high Celestial Spheres. He desires men to worship only the One True Father that he worships, and thus receive the true benediction of the Father.

Well, I see that you are tired and I will not write more.

With my love, I will say good-night.

Your brother in Christ,

Samuel

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 16:19:21 GMT
Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 16:42:17 GMT
I've done some reading into Masonic lodges in the past.

I wasn't aware (or though why should I be) that they were into secret degrees of power.

I also thought, that the Illuminati have a 10th degree? better than all others?

I must ask, are you a 9th degree mason? and what is the new science?...

Reson, you say...
[Energy does not die. Only God incarnates can have eternal life]

That is a paradox?

If I am NOT a God incarnate... where does my eternal undying energy go after my physical body dies?

Does it depend on if I'm a good person... or do I have to be a mason?

Posted on 21 Mar 2012 16:34:07 GMT
Reson says:
All I can say is yes they move in secrecy. they can have all the degrees they want to make up. people give them to much power.
There time is up. they work in 3s while we work in 9s.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 17:29:13 GMT
Shakepen says:
Dear Harry: You are , of course, right. If a Christian sect denied the crucifixion of Christ, it would not be Christian by definition because the crucifixion and resurrection are what elevated Jesus from man to Christ.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 17:34:07 GMT
Shakepen says:
Dear Reson: there will always be religion. It may not, to use your metaphorical phrasing, be sold under that brand name, but it will be sold because it provides emotional solace among other psychological advantages. Does it matter whether it is scientifically true? Does it matter whether you or I believe? Absolutely not.

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 17:37:22 GMT
Shakepen says:
Dear Reson: "And yes a great cleansing is on its way. A positive cataclysm to end the old and begin the new order of things." When you write stuff like this, I can't decide whether you sound like Jeremiah or a Marxist or a Fascist! They all proclaim a new world order!

In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 17:41:32 GMT
Shakepen says:
Dear Reson: "Jesus belonged to certain mystical orders." Yes, he did. It was called "Judaism." To state any other mystical affiliation is worse than speculation: it is fantasy!
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